Lia: Some months, I didn't have any clients.

Sina: Then we started working together. How much did you actually make? Drum roll, please.

Lia: More than $60,000.

Sina: You see all of these people moving to Dubai. You're thinking, "Where's the money coming from? How are they all becoming influencers?" Wait. What if I don't even want to become an influencer? We both are from Germany.

Lia: One week in Germany, I feel like nothing happened. I took all the income I made and moved to Dubai.

Sina: No Plan B.

Lia: This is the point where most people turn back.

Sina: You came here. You were a Muslim?

Lia: First time for me hearing the Adhan, I had tears in my eyes every time.

Sina: We have so much in common. After we converted, we deleted our entire online presence, which is a very...

Lia: Smart idea.

Sina: Because then no one knows you. A 200-follower account, only personal videos, and you hit 11,000 followers within four weeks.

Lia: Three weeks.

Sina: Three weeks. But then you got a keynote in Dubai. In Germany. Wow. What did you do?

Lia: I posted three times a day.

Sina: Oh, you're doing a lot. How did you come up with ideas? Aren't you burned out?

Lia: No. Because I listened to you.

Sina: But, Sina, I'm afraid of hate comments.

Lia: It doesn't matter anymore.

Sina: A lot of people say, "Oh, I want passive income." Wait. Do you have active income where you can get consistent lead flow?

Lia: I got so many leads, I was overwhelmed.

Sina: What a problem to have.

Lia: Too many leads.

Sina: Too many leads. How to go from a traditional word-of-mouth business to a business that grows online without you having to be there 24/7.

Sina: Welcome to the Brand with Sina podcast. Today, we have a special guest here, and we're going to talk about her journey to stop chasing and start attracting. Because the way that you attract butterflies is not by chasing them. It's about building a garden and letting them come to you. Today, we have a very special guest, and I'm excited for you to meet her. You know how you see all of these people moving to Dubai? They have their gym with the view of the Burj Khalifa. They're sitting in golden cafés with their lattes, and they're bringing their laptops to the beach café to work there. And you're thinking, "How in the world are they doing this? How can they afford this? Where's the money coming from? How are they all becoming influencers?" And then you ask yourself, "Wait. What if I don't even want to become an influencer? What if I want to have a serious business?" Well, you will get all of the answers here today. You'll hear what it takes to leave everything behind and start from scratch, what it means to have a total life rebrand, and even how to go from a traditional word-of-mouth business to a business that grows online without you having to be there 24/7. Because we have a very beautiful guest here today. I'm excited to talk to her because we have so much in common. We're both from Germany. We both converted to Islam. We're both here in Dubai now. And I'm excited for you to hear her story about how she built a personal brand and business around who she is. So thank you so much for being here, Lia.

Lia: Thank you for inviting me. I'm so excited.

Sina: I think it's the first time we've officially spoken in English for a long time.

Lia: I know. I'm so excited for this hour.

Sina: And you just came back from Germany, right?

Lia: Yes, so I still need to switch.

Sina: If you don't know any words, don't worry. We can do Denglish.

Lia: Denglish.

Sina: I want to first ask something that I think people are really interested in. Coming from Germany, how was that journey for you? What made you decide to leave in the first place?

Lia: Apart from the winter?

Sina: Yeah, apart from the winter and the gray weather.

Lia: I think it's something in your heart telling you right from the beginning, "You're not growing old in Germany." I always knew it wasn't my home. Even when you have your family there, when you grew up there, I felt like, "No, this is not home to me." And I was always seeking this home. I went to so many places in the world. I went to the US. I went around Europe - Portugal, Greece, Italy. I even liked Italy a lot. But when I came to Dubai, I think within the first two seconds after I landed, I was like, "Wow. This actually feels like home." For me, it was so obvious. I initially came here just to see what was going on because everyone was moving to Dubai. Four years ago, everyone was talking about it.

Sina: It was like a trend going on.

Lia: Yeah. So I was like, "What are they doing there? I need to check this out."

Sina: This is the funny thing because I'm from a village, so a lot of people are like, "Yeah, you're from a German village. Of course you want to see the world." But you lived in Berlin?

Lia: Yes, before. But I grew up between Cologne and Düsseldorf.

Sina: That's also a big city.

Lia: Yes. I grew up in Cologne, I would say. For me, it was normal to just take a train for 15 or 20 minutes and you're at the main central station in Cologne. So for me, being in a big city was normal. But Germany is Germany. Even when you live in Berlin, when you live in Cologne... I was living in a Bavarian village as well for about six months.

Sina: Oh, wow.

Lia: Yes, because my friend was living there, so I went to see her and stayed with her. And it doesn't matter where you are. Germany is Germany.

Sina: So for people who are not German, what do you mean by that?

Lia: I can't really explain it. The feeling of the people, I would say. When you're in Germany and you understand the language and how people talk to each other, for me, it always felt kind of rude. And when you go to the US and come back and tell them, "No, people in the US are actually nice," they tell you, "Oh, they're superficial." No. They're actually nice. They talk respectfully to you. They're nice. They're warmer and more welcoming. Even in Arab countries, people are warmer and more welcoming. And that's what I missed the most in Germany. People are very cold and maybe private, but they'll tell you their opinion when you never asked for it.

Sina: That's so interesting because I have a friend who's Egyptian. She grew up in the US and came to Berlin for the first time. She told me, "Sina, I don't understand. People tell me their opinion without me asking. Why would you just come to a random stranger and tell her what you don't like about her or her behavior?" She found it so weird. And I was like, "Yeah, well, I think you just got a taste of Germany." You had one post where you talked about two things, and I feel like we need to clarify this for people who aren't German. One was about bathrooms, and one was about opening doors for women. Tell us about that because I think it's a good cultural example of why you felt like you wanted to leave the country, especially as a woman.

Lia: I think when you've never experienced the difference, you don't know. If I had stayed in Germany all my life, never traveled, never learned about Islam or different cultures or men from different cultures, maybe I would just accept that this is normal.

Sina: It is like it is.

Lia: It is like it is. And when you go to a different country, you feel like, "Oh, wow. Men actually respect me more. Men actually treat me better." They treat you like a princess, I would say, without you even asking. It feels more respectful. And in Germany, they're more like, "We're on the same level."

Sina: Give us the example of the bathroom and the door so people understand what you mean.

Lia: I was in the bathroom here at the Address Hotel, and it's so fancy, right? And it's just a public bathroom. You can go have a coffee, use the washroom, and leave. I was in this bathroom looking around and thinking, "Wow. This is so clean. There are towels everywhere." And this is normal in Dubai. I know it's a five-star hotel, but it's a common standard. Then I remembered being in Germany, going to some supermarket, and they wouldn't let you use the washroom. People were commenting that it's because of the law and they're not allowed to let you use it. So you ask, "Hey, I need to use the washroom," and they're like, "No. Not possible." I was standing there washing my hands, remembering this, and I was like, "You know what? I'm just going to film this and make a reel out of it." Because these are common things happening in Germany every day that aren't normal to me anymore. I mean, opening doors - these are little standards in Dubai. They park your car. They open the door. They take everything. I was in Germany last week and my family said, "Never come back. You need to do all these things by yourself here. Remember?"

Sina: I found this so funny because I had a very similar experience, but as a mom. In Germany, it's honestly a nightmare to find places to change your baby when you're out shopping. Apart from trying to find a prayer room or even just a clean toilet...

Lia: I don't even want to talk about this.

Sina: But in Dubai Mall, or honestly any mall I've been to, everything is so clean. Even the airport. You feel like you could nap there with your child if you needed to. They have machines for making baby milk if you use formula. They have hot water so you can prepare the formula. I was in awe because I felt like I was in a hotel, but it's just a normal mall. Then I came back to Germany and saw the difference. My mind has to go in 45 different directions just to figure out how I'm going to travel, go shopping, or change my baby while I'm there. Here, that's just everyday life. And I feel like this makes such a huge difference when you have a business, when there are already so many things you need to think about on top of growing your business. So you had a business in Germany, and you left all of a sudden. In terms of business, not just lifestyle and, "Oh, it's fancy to live here," why did you want to make the move?

Lia: We had the coronavirus crisis. And during that crisis, businesses I worked with were closed, then open, closed, then open. I was thinking, "Okay, how do I continue with this?" Because you're so dependent on whether they close or open, whether they can afford you or not, whether they're allowed to operate or not. After one year, I was like, "I'm done with this." Then I started thinking, "Okay, what do I do next?" I started in the online business space, took all the income I made, and moved to Dubai.

Sina: So you came here. No Plan B. You just made the move. How was it for you to come here and be alone?

Lia: Dubai can be very lonely because a lot of people are here for work. That's something you need to keep in mind. Four years ago, it was more difficult to be alone because now more people are coming, and there are a lot of community events and ladies' events. Four years ago, there weren't as many. So I felt lonely at the beginning. But for me, it was clear: if I want to grow my business in the future, I can't go to a place that's not developing. As a businessperson, you need to be in a place where you see yourself and your business growing and where the government has a future for businesses and businesspeople.

Sina: Yes.

Lia: The economy here is always about, "Okay, we want people to grow." It doesn't mean you don't need to do anything. You need to keep moving. You need to keep up with the pace in Dubai. Dubai is very fast.

Sina: It is.

Lia: It's crazy. If you're from Germany, one week in Germany feels like nothing happened.

Sina: Stillstand.

Lia: Yes. Nothing is happening. Then I come back here and I'm like, "Oh, finally, I'm back at this pace." Because this is what keeps your business moving and keeps you moving. That was actually one of the biggest reasons for me to move - personal growth. To go through the pain of loneliness, to go through the pain of, "I have no idea what to do." All this pain, all this struggle. But I knew, "Okay, if I go through this, I'll break through, Insha'Allah, one day, and then it will be fine." I feel like you can do this in every country, but Dubai supports you in getting there faster. There is also so much support for you, for your baby, for dependents you bring with you. There are so many things supporting you all the time.

Sina: Tell us a little bit more about the first couple of weeks, months, years. How long have you been here?

Lia: Four years.

Sina: Four years. Okay, you're a veteran. Tell us more about that struggle with loneliness and trying to build a business. Like you said, you're probably going to feel lonely building a business wherever you are. But at least here, you have that push. You can see other people hustling as well. There are these bubbles of people hustling next to each other, but it can still be lonely. How did you feel at that time when it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows?

Lia: When I moved here, I had an apartment with two balconies. One balcony had an ocean view, and one had a Burj Khalifa view. Because that's what I always said when I was in Berlin. I was like, "You know what? When I move to Dubai, I will see the Burj Khalifa." I had never seen it. I didn't know. It was just something fun I would say. Then I was here, all by myself, standing there looking from the balcony at the Burj Khalifa and the lights. And I was thinking, "Okay. What do I actually do here?" Sometimes when you're all by yourself growing your business, you feel like, "What am I actually doing right now?" Because no one else is moving with you. And I think this is just a certain period you need to get through. For me, maybe it was a year or two years. Because when you reach the breakthrough, it doesn't matter anymore. You feel like, "Alhamdulillah, I went through this and I kept going." Because this is the point where most people turn back. They go back to the crowd. This is the moment where you realize you've stepped out of the crowd. Maybe you're the first millionaire in your family. Maybe you're the first one who did this. So do you go further, or do you go back to the crowd?

Sina: Tell us a bit more about what you do. You do consulting, and when you came here, you also started doing relocation consulting, helping other businesses establish themselves here. Tell us about the first steps in your business. How was it for you to set it up?

Lia: When I moved here, nobody knew the answers to my questions. I studied economics, and I've been doing business consulting since around 2011, so I was always in this field. I moved here and asked all my questions. How do you do the bookkeeping? How do you structure everything? And no one knew the answers. Dubai is completely different from Europe or Germany. So I thought, "Okay. What can I do to get the answers?" I went to the authorities every day. At the beginning, I started helping other people. "I'll help you move here." I didn't really see it as a business for myself, as an agent or consultant in this field. But then more and more people came to me with questions. And I had the answers because I was already going to the right people, asking the right questions, doing educational programs here, learning from the authorities and meeting people. I just tried to answer people's questions. That's how it started.

Sina: That's really interesting because you literally took your own story and looked at, "What problems am I solving for myself that other people also want solved?" I always find it funny because we come to you with questions about business setup and everything, and you always have an answer. You always have a story behind the answer. You've gone through everything. And if you didn't go through it, one of your clients probably did. You take your story and make your offers out of it. This is what I always say when it comes to level one of Garden Mentoring: You don't pick a niche. You become the niche. How do you do that? Look at your story. What did you go through? What problems did you solve for yourself? Those are often problems other people want solved as well. So you established yourself and started offering this to clients because you'd solved it for yourself and other people were asking you for it. But I want to go a little bit into the personal side. You came here for business, and then you became Muslim.

Lia: Yeah. Randomly.

Sina: And now people are probably like, "Yeah, she knows everything." Even your accent sounds... Germans would say you're integrated.

Lia: Yeah, they would say that.

Sina: Tell us a little bit about your journey to Islam because this is something we have in common. And I think this is the first time we're actually talking about it.

Lia: Yes.

Sina: So tell me.

Lia: Maybe you can relate, but without Islam, you feel like a lost soul. That's how I would describe it. Maybe people who are Muslim and lose faith and then come back to it can relate because you feel like you're seeking answers and seeking the truth all your life, but you never feel like you've reached the end. You never feel at home. You keep seeking answers and seeking the truth. I was in Utah. I was around Christians and other groups because I was seeking answers. But every time I was with these groups or in churches, I never felt like, "This is the truth."

Sina: There's always something missing.

Lia: Yeah. It's not the end. I was with Mormons.

Sina: Yeah.

Lia: Which is funny, but it's interesting because you go there and you feel like, "Yeah, okay, I can relate to Jesus," but it doesn't feel like the end. Then when I came here, I think it was the first time I heard the Adhan.

Sina: The call to prayer.

Lia: Yeah, the call to prayer. I don't remember if I cried the first time or maybe the third, but I had tears in my eyes every time. Even when you go to the mall, you hear it.

Sina: Yes.

Lia: And I was thinking, "This is so relatable." I can't really explain it, but it's in your heart. You feel like, "This is something I'm attracted to. This feels like the answer." And finally, you can surrender. It's hard to describe because I don't have words for the feelings I was feeling. But it's like, "Okay. Finally, you can surrender." Finally, you can sit there, take a deep breath, and your heart feels peace. And I think this is what I was seeking when I didn't have Islam in my life.

Sina: I can relate to this a lot. I grew up Christian. I actually grew up as a Jehovah's Witness, so very strict Christian. Honestly, I had a beautiful experience myself. I think I had the most beautiful childhood I could imagine. Obviously, being bullied in school because of my faith also gave me a lot of confidence.

Lia: But that was good. It makes you strong.

Sina: Yes. It makes you strong. And it helped me understand that there's something afterwards. I always felt like Christianity was part of the beginning, obviously with Judaism and Christianity, but there had to be something afterwards. I felt like there was something missing. The moment I found Islam wasn't actually one moment. It was more of a journey. You know the saying, "You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with"? I had this moment once in my early twenties where I looked at the five people around me that I spent time with and the people I wanted to be like. One thing they all had in common was that they were Muslim. They didn't know each other. There was a person in Malaysia, in Indonesia, in Dubai, from different countries, but they all had this one thing in common. And I felt like, "Okay. If I feel so connected to them, then I need to figure out what this Islam thing is all about." I studied it. I did Ramadan for a couple of years, and I studied Islam. But the moment I knew I would convert - and it still took about a year after that - was actually in Dubai for the first time. I went on a day trip to the mosque in Abu Dhabi.

Lia: I don't know why.

Sina: I came here for work, and my colleagues were like, "Why are you taking Friday off instead of Saturday?" I'm like, "Because I want to go to the mosque." I didn't even know why. I just had this random idea. I went to the mosque, and I remember I cried as well. I remember being in the mosque and thinking, "Yes. I will convert." I didn't do it then. I did it about a year later. But that was the moment. So I feel like Dubai has that special place in my heart.

Lia: For me, Dubai was a place where they showed you Islam in a different kind of environment.

Sina: Like life.

Lia: Yes.

Sina: That's true. One of the other things we have in common is that after we converted, we deleted our entire online presence.

Lia: Which is a very smart idea...

Sina: If you have a business.

Lia: Because then no one knows you.

Sina: You have zero network. You have no place to promote yourself or your business. Super smart. You deleted everything you'd built over the last couple of years. All your hard-earned work, your testimonials. What did you do? You already had a business and deleted everything. How was it for you? I know it was super hard for me.

Lia: Yes. It was crazy. I was struggling at the beginning. I was like, "Should I put on the hijab? Should I delete everything because it's not me anymore?" I couldn't relate to it anymore, and I didn't want to have footage online without hijab. That was the main concern I had first. I struggled with it for maybe three weeks. Five years ago, I would have freaked out.

Sina: Three weeks is better.

Lia: Yeah. Years ago, I would have had a panic attack because it's so much work you've put into something. But after converting, I was like, "No. This is something I don't want anymore," mostly because of the hijab. Then I deleted everything. And I think the first week, I felt relief. I remember lying on the floor in my living room and thinking, "Wow. You did this, and everything will be fine." What I needed to learn was trust. I didn't have Instagram or any social media for maybe a year, or at least six months. Then I started a personal account just for fun. Everything was gone.

Sina: All the hard-earned work. And this was around the time when you came to me and said, "Sina, personal branding. Tell me about it."

Lia: First we met, and then you asked me something. You asked me, "Why don't you want to do a personal brand or social media anymore?" And I was like, "No. I don't want to. I'm fine. I went through this already. I deleted everything. Goodbye. I don't want to be online anymore." Then maybe a week or two later, it was working inside of me. I started asking myself, "Why?" Because if you're covered and everything is fine, why not? I even called a scholar in Dubai.

Sina: Yeah.

Lia: I asked him, "Can I be online with my voice? Because your voice and your face could potentially be considered awrah too, right?" And he said, "No. If you're covered, everything is fine. You can do your job because somehow you need to do your job. You need advertising and marketing." And I was like, "Okay. Good." Then I asked myself, "Okay, it's good with the clients I have now. But what happens in five years? What happens in three years?" Because social media is so important. And right now, I think we still have maybe one or two years where you can build this community for free. You get these views for free. You get followers for free.

Sina: And...

Lia: I realized this because you asked me why. I started thinking, "Okay, yeah. What is the why? What happens in three years?"

Sina: Lia?

Lia: What happens in five years? What happens after this?

Sina: So you had word-of-mouth clients. How many did you usually have before social media?

Lia: Some months, I didn't have any clients. Maybe around Christmas or summer break. And that was also fine with me because I was doing my things and I was stable, Alhamdulillah. Some months maybe three or four clients, maybe two, maybe none. And for me, that was enough. That's why I never really thought about it.

Sina: So you had word-of-mouth, which means you relied on former clients to give you new clients and recommend you. It wasn't something you could actively control. But then you also had an Instagram account with 200 followers where you shared very aesthetic videos of your bags, coffee shops, and you from the back.

Lia: Yes. So no one was seeing me.

Sina: No one was seeing you. There was no message behind it. What was the first thing we worked on?

Lia: I think going in front of the camera again was important for me. And scripting Reels. Because if you've never done this, it's something you need to work on. People have attention spans like goldfish, right? Two seconds, and then they scroll. And I knew if I started working with you, my main concern was that I needed content that would make people stop, continue watching, and maybe even go to my profile to see who I am and what I'm doing.

Sina: Curious.

Lia: Curious.

Sina: There you go. The Germans trying to find the word. Okay. So your main goal was, "I want to have a family in the future. I don't want to be working 24 hours. I can't rely on lead flow that I'm not even controlling."

Lia: Yeah, because everything was very out of my control.

Sina: So now our main focus was: how do we build a personal brand where you can get consistent lead flow? Potential clients coming in consistently. And then how do we create content to bring them in? What do you feel like you struggled with the most in the beginning?

Lia: Of course, the content. If you don't create content daily or look at other content and analyze it instead of just consuming it, it's very difficult to get used to making content, especially high-quality content.

Sina: Then we started working together, and within one month you hit?

Lia: 11,000 followers. But for me, more important was over one million views. The reach of my account was over one million. For me, that was mind-blowing.

Sina: Okay. We have to step back for a second. Let's start again. A 200-follower account, only personal videos. And the funny thing I didn't mention is that it wasn't even in German.

Lia: Arabic.

Sina: Oh, it was Arabic?

Lia: I used Arabic trending sounds.

Sina: Oh, yes. Exactly. Like poems and stuff.

Lia: Yes.

Sina: Then we turned this account into a personal branding account in German because your clients are German. And you hit 11,000 followers within four weeks.

Lia: I think three.

Sina: Three weeks.

Lia: Three weeks, yeah. It was very fast. It was blowing up.

Sina: So just for people to understand: It was difficult for you in the beginning to start making content, but then you hit one million reach and 11,000 followers in three weeks. How does that come together? Give us your top tips. When you joined Garden Mentoring, what was the most impactful thing that helped you get there?

Lia: For me, the most important thing was scripting the Reels. Because when you look at the market and consume Reels, I got tired of all the content. And that's why I chose to work with you, because I liked your content. I liked the style. I liked the wording. I liked the quality. I liked all of it. And for me, it was, "Okay. If I want to have this, I need to work with someone who does this." Otherwise, how do you learn it?

Sina: People would say, "Okay, but you can still go to other Instagram influencers and they'll give you a thousand tips." Did you try that?

Lia: No, because I wanted to work with you.

Sina: One thing I remember is that we fought for a long time around language. You were like, "I want to build an international brand, but all my clients are German." And you were a little afraid of turning all your content into German. But then, within those three months, you got a keynote in Dubai about your business.

Lia: Yes. And Germany. I was flying to Düsseldorf, actually.

Sina: Wow. So you have 11,000 followers. You have a keynote in Dubai about your business. You have a keynote in Düsseldorf, so you fly back to Germany for your business. I didn't even know this.

Lia: Yeah, because everything was happening so fast.

Sina: You came to me and said, "Sina, I don't want to look like every other relocation expert. They're boring. It's always, 'My three tips...' It's cringe." So what was the actual content strategy we focused on with you?

Lia: I listened to my clients more. Not just the part of, "Okay, I want to move to Dubai, and I need a business and a visa." Everyone can do that.

Sina: "You want to move to Dubai? Maybe you're struggling. Call this number."

Lia: Exactly. I have a very special relationship with my clients. I love my clients with all my heart, and the relationship is so warm. I wanted to put what I have behind the scenes in front of the scenes. I think that's what changed the most. Really look at the problems. What do they say? What's the real reason? It's not the visa. It's actually about having someone help you create your better self, your business, becoming the woman you want to be. You need the environment. You need supportive people around you. You have nannies cheering you up. People are grateful and nice. You go shopping and people help you. You want to have this environment. So I started looking behind, "I just want a visa and I want to live here."

Sina: So for people who have never seen your content, what did it actually look like? Give us some examples of your best-performing Reels.

Lia: One of my best-performing Reels was about how I love going to a women's gym. I love the lifestyle for women in Dubai. And I was thinking, "Okay, what do I like that people in Germany might not know about?" Because for me, it's normal. I've been here for years. So I started thinking, "Maybe this isn't normal for them." I had just finished at my gym and said, "Okay, this is only for women." For me, it's normal to have this privilege and all these special things for women. So I said something like, "Living in Dubai makes you feel like a princess."

Sina: Yes.

Lia: Then you have two sides of people. Group A says, "Oh my God, yes." And Group B says...

Sina: "If you like it so much, just stay there."

Lia: Exactly.

Sina: It's so funny. Under every viral video of yours, it's like, "If you like it so much, just stay there." I'm like, "Duh."

Lia: Or they say, "Go back. Go back to your home country." But I'm German. So usually I say, "Hi, Peter. Sorry, I don't want to go back to Germany." But you need to ignore this.

Sina: Hi, Peter. Okay, so this is also something you came to me with. You said, "Sina, I'm afraid of hate comments."

Lia: Yes.

Sina: Especially in the German market. I'm just glad I don't have the German market, especially as someone who looks like me. It can be rough.

Lia: It is rough. I'm very grateful for the success managers in Garden Mentoring because at first, I took it very personally. Even though it had nothing to do with me. But if you get 200 comments attacking your race, even though you're German, or saying something about your religion... They just see you as a package and throw everything at you. I was so glad because the mindset success managers helped me so much to calm down, relax, get back to my focus, and just block, block, block everyone.

Sina: My favorite one. Block, block, block.

Lia: Yes. I was always hearing your voice: "Block, block, block."

Sina: And hunt your dreams. Okay. The funny thing is that we used your story. We used lifestyle stories from your life and your actual story. One of the things we did was shoot your actual story - your why video, your conversion to Islam. How many views did that video get?

Lia: The one with just my lifestyle has almost 400,000 views. Actually, it has 380,000. I checked today. And the one about Islam has around 95,000, I think. It's a lot. That's why I'm mind-blown by the more than one million views and impressions.

Sina: I think reach, right?

Lia: Yes.

Sina: Wow. Obviously, you're not an influencer.

Lia: No.

Sina: You never wanted to be an influencer.

Lia: No.

Sina: What was your goal with social media? Because we're talking about reach and followers. That sounds very influencer- y.

Lia: My goal was thinking about the next three to five years. Imagine people don't recommend you anymore. Who are you? I know who I am, but how do people find you? It's so normal to Google something or share Reels nowadays. For me, it was important to find more of my perfect clients. To find more women I can help move by themselves. More families who want to move with their little kids because they want to have a better future. More of those kinds of people.

Sina: So what happened during that month when you grew? Did you get more business?

Lia: Yes. I calculated it because I sold so many side products that I didn't even have in my product categories before. I had calls where people were like, "Yes, I want to book a one-to-one." And I'm like, "Yeah, but I'm a business consultant. I don't really have a one-to- one." Then it was like, "Okay, we can make it a one-to-one." So I sold things I didn't really have before because I was previously only focusing on setting up a business and everything that comes after that. Now I also help people with what comes before. What does your strategy look like? Similar to what we did. What does this look like long term?

Sina: Yes.

Lia: What are the important small steps?

Sina: So the biggest question now for everyone: How much did you actually make? Drum roll, please.

Lia: More than $60,000.

Sina: I told you not to tell me before so I could actually react. Masha'Allah. Wow.

Lia: So many people were reaching out. I also built a Skool community from scratch, and there are over 100 women now. It feels like everyone is coming from everywhere, and I can't stop it.

Sina: Oh my God. My leads.

Lia: Yes.

Sina: That's amazing. For someone listening, this might sound like, "Wow, you're doing a lot. You have all these new offers. Aren't you burned out?" What do you say?

Lia: No, because I listened to you. I feel like I have more energy than before, and I'm more structured and disciplined.

Sina: How?

Lia: Because I listened to all those things you say. For example, not having this huge morning routine. I think you said that last time, right? You don't need it. And it's true. I wake up, do the things that are important, and then take time for myself. Before, I was like, "You need to wake up at five, take a cold shower," that kind of thing. Now I do the opposite, and I feel like everything works better. Garden Mentoring also showed me how to build small automations. And I think these are very important, especially when you have an overflow of leads, which will happen if you do the content right and follow the process. You need this basic structure to keep them moving somewhere. And for everyone who's doing this, don't stress too much. Because I got so many leads that I was overwhelmed. I was like, "I don't know what to do with them."

Sina: So let's talk a little bit about that. We have level one, where you started with basically no audience, literally a 200-follower account. Then you grew to 10K. You started making money. Now you've graduated to level two, where we're going to focus on scaling your active income. Because a lot of people say, "Oh, I want passive income." And I'm like, "Okay, okay, wait. Do you have active income? Is it scaling?" Let's scale your active income first. Then in level two, we're also going to start working on your passive income. I'm excited about what we're going to plan for you. But tell us a little bit about the levels. You said number one was understanding how to do Reels, how to hook people. That was for actually growing your audience.

Lia: And also finding yourself, I would say. For me, it was really, "Okay, who am I? And how do I show people who I am?"

Sina: Tell us one concrete thing you learned inside Garden Mentoring that helped you become who you are.

Lia: The basics, I would say. You always need to go back to the basics and understand who you are in order to become the niche. That's actually how it is. It sounds easy, but it's work to find this. You need to follow the steps. You need to rethink things and take your time. For me, I was a little stressed because I got so many leads. But actually, no. It's okay. They can wait in the email list for level two.

Sina: Exactly. You have them there. You can always see what offers work for them. So now in level two, what's your biggest goal?

Lia: I think the first conversation we had was about passive income. But we had the first mastermind call, and it was so eye-opening for me because it's true - you have to go back to the start. It's always the basics. Go back to your basics and see where you need to optimize other steps before you think about passive income. For me, the biggest goal is to create more automations in this process. Because when level one starts to flow, you always need to optimize things, but it will flow. Then after that, you need to learn what to do and which parts are the best use of your time. Because you don't want to spend all day on calls. That's the goal. When I have a family, Insha'Allah, I don't want to have to think, "Oh, I need to be here and there." I want everything to work somehow.

Sina: Exactly. Okay. So $60K. Masha'Allah.

Lia: Masha'Allah.

Sina: What's the next goal?

Lia: I never really thought about numbers. That's why I needed to calculate it because I don't usually think about it. For me, the goal right now is more about the flow. Before, I was more like, "Okay, you need to reach X, Y, Z." Now I'm more like, "Okay, this is the flow that's going on. Then I adapt this and this, and the flow continues. Then maybe this and this." So I don't really think about the numbers. Of course, we want more clients. But my biggest goal is to help people and build more automations so I can get more out of my time.

Sina: So now we have an automation where when people come to a post and want to reach out to you, they can directly book a call?

Lia: They go to a webinar first.

Sina: There you go. So we already have a step before that.

Lia: Yeah, because there were too many leads.

Sina: You were already booked out.

Lia: I was like, "Okay, I want to serve them, so I need to have something."

Sina: It's such a bad problem to have.

Lia: Too many leads. Too many leads and booked out. You told us in Garden Mentoring that it's better to have people apply for something and not immediately see your availability. And I was at this point where I was like, "There's no availability anymore." Because if your content is good, if you go back to the basics, and if you learn how to become the niche, you will be fully booked. Because there's no one exactly like you. You're unique. And that's very special, especially nowadays when everyone looks at what other people are doing and copies it. Sometimes I see Reels from competitors and they're all saying the exact same things.

Sina: So what would you say to someone who's just starting, who's literally at level zero where you started? What's the first thing they should do?

Lia: Take your time. Don't put yourself under pressure because it takes time to figure out the content. It's always testing as well. You need to learn how to script. You need to learn how to create quality content. You need to learn who you are and what to say so people understand your message. And I would say that takes time. You need to allow yourself to take this time and not say, "Oh, I need to do this in three months." No. Maybe it takes a year, and that's okay. You can't lose anything. If you start walking, you will walk. You just have to keep walking.

Sina: Yes. The momentum. I always think about it like a treadmill. You can't stop walking. If you stop walking, you fall on your face. Sometimes you just have to keep going, and then it will start to flow. So what would you tell people who are in level one but want to get to level two?

Lia: I posted three times a day, and it was fun. I was excited. I was excited to wake up and be like, "Oh, the first post." I prepared and edited everything the day before, and then the next day I posted it. I did that for three or four weeks.

Sina: How did you come up with ideas?

Lia: It's always the same, I would say. If you learn about yourself, who you are, and understand that you are the niche, you have a lot of ideas because it's all around you and your clients. Even if you're at zero and you don't have any clients yet, you'll learn who you want to attract. Then you always go back to the words they say, what they think, what they need. It's always the same.

Sina: It sounds easy, but you need to go through the process. You need to practice it and listen to people. So before, you had sometimes zero, sometimes two clients or leads every month. Now how many do you have?

Lia: Too many. I'm fully booked. No, I'm not. You can reach out.

Sina: Who actually is the best relocation expert.

Lia: I have a team now, so I'm not fully booked anymore. You can reach out. But I was fully booked for at least one month.

Sina: Which is how many clients?

Lia: I had six clients in one week, which is a lot.

Sina: In one week.

Lia: In one week. That was probably my maximum because I really take care of my clients. I take them everywhere. They can reach out to me all the time. They can ask me important questions.

Sina: I know you answer at 2:00 a.m., which - don't promote that, please.

Lia: I don't promote this. Only to VIP clients. But this is what I like to do. That's my service because Dubai is fast. If you don't adapt your business to that, especially because my business is about Dubai, you can close your business. Everything is so fast. I feel like, "Okay, if I don't get this done with this person in the next few days, maybe the law will change. Maybe a different problem will appear." So you need to adapt to this. That's why I'm fast and my team is fast. They know they need to be fast. I have a team here in Dubai as well. Two or three people I work with. Three. I have an auditor, tech, everyone I need in the team. And they're fast too. You need to adapt to this fast service.

Sina: First of all, I think it's funny because, like you said, you have a team. On the other call, we were like, "Are you doing this all yourself?"

Lia: Yes, I did.

Sina: And now it's time to scale. Now it's time to buy your time back and streamline some things. One of the things I also want to do with you in level two is set up your other offers. You have your offers where you personally service every client, but now you also have people who are before that. People who aren't yet ready to make the move but need some kind of offer. And you have people after that. So we're going to look at people on different levels and what kind of offers we can serve to those levels where you don't need to be the person actually delivering the offer. That's how we get to passive income. I'm excited for that. Level one - Become Known, become known for who you are. Level two - Get Paid. And then we go into scaling.

Lia: Yes. I can't wait.

Sina: What would you say to Lia five years ago, as the Lia you are now, when she was just thinking about moving to Dubai? What's the one thing you would tell her made the biggest difference for you?

Lia: Be patient. I think I used to be a person who wasn't patient and wanted to get things done very fast or reach goals very fast. What I've learned now is that the more patient you are, the better it becomes. Because you need to take your time to learn things, practice things, and test things.

Sina: Thank you so much for joining. Thank you for being so open and sharing all of the little things that helped you. And I personally can't wait for the next level.

Lia: Me too.

Sina: So if you're ready to, just like Lia, go from level zero to level one, and level one to level two, then you're also able to join Garden Mentoring. You can apply now. We've just opened applications for level two. We have a very small mastermind group at the moment, and we need to figure out what level you're currently at. You can book a call with my team to see what level you're at, what the next few steps are that you need to take to get to the next level, and then we'll see how we can get you there. I'm excited to see you inside. The link to book a call is below. Thank you so much for joining us until here. We have so much more that we're going to talk about. But for now, don't forget to subscribe to this channel and also check out our podcast on all podcast platforms.

Sina: My team was like, "Rubia just made $16K yesterday. Rubia just made $32K. Rubia just made $58K."

Rubia: Two weeks. It's now...

Sina: Wow. How many clients is that?

Rubia: You're not gonna believe it.

Sina: Imagine moving to a totally new country. One suitcase in hand.

Rubia: I started working in a cafe.

Sina: Fifteen dollars an hour. Now imagine, on top of it, you get pregnant. At that point in time, you're burned out. Here's the twist.

Rubia: You start a business as a makeup artist. It becomes so successful, you burn out, going blank. All of those things.

Rubia: I had three miscarriages. That was a really painful time in my life. But with this business, you can't take a break and let your body heal. So you're just constantly working. I looked at my son and I was like, "I don't have any energy to give to him." And my heart just broke into a million pieces. Sometimes I had 12 to 14 clients a day. In order to make that money, I had to be there physically, day in, day out. So that's when I came across you. The same day, I just signed up for your program.

Sina: We became two moms with little babies. When I met Rubia, I told her, "My goal for you is to sit at a beach with your baby and hear the cha-ching sound coming from your phone."

Rubia: I'm going to launch my own beauty brand, but I knew I wouldn't be able to sell anything.

Sina: So you knew that personal branding was the thing that would help you.

Rubia: I hit 100K within a few months. It's crazy to say it out loud. The month I made the most money was the month where I worked the least.

Sina: What did we change?

Rubia: So we started with...

Sina: Do you want to do my makeup? Freshen me up?

Rubia: Yeah, sure. Let's do it.

Sina: We want your expertise before we jump into how you can make money from it.

Sina: Imagine you're moving to a totally new country. No money, literally one suitcase in hand. You think you have all the expertise. You have a master's degree, but people only offer you $15 an hour, and you take it because you need the money. Now imagine, on top of it, you get pregnant and you have a six-month-old baby. At that point in time, you're burned out because you sell your hours for money, and you don't know where to go from here because there are literally no hours left in the day. That was Rubia. When I met Rubia, I told her, "My goal for you is to sit at a beach with your baby and hear that cha-ching notification coming from your phone, showing you how much people have paid you for your service. Not per hour, but premium." Her goal when she came to me, and she was so shy talking about it, was to make $50,000 a month. And last month, she crushed that goal like crazy. Today, we're gonna talk about how you can do the same. And I'm so excited for you to hear her story directly from her because we're just two moms with little babies trying to get paid to be who we are. And if you're in the same position and you're saying, "I want to be that mom that makes money and gives freedom to her family, and still has a life that she can enjoy with her family while the money is flowing in," then this episode is for you. Welcome, Rubia.

Rubia: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Sina: It's so nice to have you here in Dubai, flying you over from Australia. You're coming from winter?

Rubia: Yes, coming from winter.

Sina: So how many degrees?

Rubia: Currently, I think it was around 16 degrees. So we landed right into 39.

Sina: Yeah, it was a big change.

Rubia: A big change.

Sina: And as a makeup artist, it needs a lot more setting powder.

Rubia: Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely testing my makeup skills.

Sina: It's so nice to have you here. In case we're babbling too much, you just have to understand we're two moms with a newborn and a teething baby.

Rubia: Yes. So have some patience. If we're rambling and words don't make sense, that's the reason.

Sina: I want everyone to know the whole story because you came from Pakistan and moved to Australia. Tell us a little bit about what life actually looked like back then.

Rubia: So when we moved to Australia seven years ago, we literally came with just a suitcase each and big dreams.

Sina: You and your husband?

Rubia: Yes, me and my husband. And we actually had nothing. No money in the bank, no plans. I had a master's degree and I used to be a graphic designer back home. But moving to a completely different country and then a specific city, no one tells you what to prepare for. No one understood my work. I started working in a cafe on minimum wage.

Sina: How much did you make at that time?

Rubia: I was making $15 an hour. So I had this dream that I wanted to start my business. And, you know, I started it from my one-bedroom apartment, with little to nothing, actually. But when I started, I had really strong dreams and passion behind it. So it became a huge success within the first six to eight months. I grew my presence on social media. I hit 100K within a few months, and even in terms of work, I was getting booked out two years in advance.

Sina: So you actually skipped a lot. Let's talk a little bit more about level one. We always talk about level one, become known to be you, and level two is get paid to be you. Tell us a little bit more about level one, becoming known. So you knew that personal branding was the thing that would help you, the social media presence?

Rubia: Yes.

Sina: And when did you do your makeup artist certification?

Rubia: So I did it five years ago.

Sina: Okay. So you had that, but no one would...

Rubia: No. So basically, it's a different story. I was a graphic designer. I had degrees for that. So I never thought about becoming a makeup artist. I was trying to pursue my career in graphic design. I tried that for two to three years in Australia, but no jobs came. I even got scammed and worked for free for a few months for a company. And then, as you said, I even accepted $15 an hour minimum wage because I was just so desperate to get my foot in the door. And when I launched my makeup business, it was a huge success. So here's the twist. You start a business, it becomes so successful, but you work too close to the sun. You burn out. And because I didn't have any proper structure or offers, in order to make that money, I had to be there physically, day in, day out. You know that you're getting booked out two years in advance. You have a huge presence on social media. But at what cost? The cost was me. And that's when I came across your mentorship program.

Sina: Let's say you come to Australia, totally different country. You didn't know anyone there. You didn't have family there?

Rubia: No. No family.

Sina: Okay. And I want to talk about the success of being a service provider because I get a lot of women who come to me and say, "I'm good at what I do." And I can see that, right? Because they are booked out, they get recommendations, and they grow their business. But it's still them trading their time for money. And if you trade your time for money, there are only 24 hours in the day. So tell us a little bit more about why that was a problem. Because you wanted to be a mom and you wanted to be a business owner at the same time. People always tell you that's not even possible. And that's what you experienced.

Rubia: Yes. And I think the business that I had built was solely based on my skill, but there was no structure. I didn't know anything about how to run a proper business. And when you try to do something like that, it consumes you. It consumes everything that's behind your business, which is your passion. And ultimately, it creeps into your skills as well.

Sina: What do you mean it creeps into your skills?

Rubia: You start doubting yourself about every single thing that you're doing. And you lose the passion for it because you don't know why you're doing it or how long you can continue doing it that way. With the makeup industry, you sacrifice your weekends. But then working on weekends alone isn't going to get you somewhere, so you start sacrificing your weekdays as well. You start offering educational content, videos, one-on-one lessons, everything to make it work. And you think that's your way out of the burnout, but you're actually getting deeper into it without realizing that physically, we can only do so much. After five years, my body is not going to be the same. So I won't be able to do this much.

Sina: Tell us exactly what you did. As a makeup artist, what did your week look like from Monday to Sunday?

Rubia: Monday to Friday, I would do one-on-one lessons, two lessons a day. So I'm working for at least eight to nine hours.

Sina: When you say one-on-one, what does that mean?

Rubia: I educate other makeup artists. So I do one-on-one lessons with them. Basically, I show them how to do makeup on clients, anything they need help with, how to run their social media, and stuff like that. And then we're fully booked with weddings and event makeup. That requires you to travel a lot to different locations and work with clients, sometimes 12 to 14 clients a day.

Sina: A day?

Rubia: A day.

Sina: Oh my God. So you drive to a wedding, for example?

Rubia: Yes.

Sina: And then you have the entire wedding party? Bride, bridesmaids...

Rubia: Bridesmaids, mother of the bride, mother of the groom. And I used to work a lot before and after the wedding events as well. So I would wake up at three in the morning and do a few clients just so I could make that extra money because weddings alone weren't enough. And the problem wasn't that I didn't have enough clients. It was how I was pricing my offers. The structure wasn't there.

Sina: But when you came to me, you said, "I can't price it differently." Even if we price it a little bit higher, there's a limit, right? Because you're still offering the service to someone. Tell us a little bit about how that connected with you planning a family because at the same time as building a business, you also wanted to build your family.

Rubia: There's a lot of stress in this industry because when you get booked out two years in advance, you can't really plan when you're going to become a mother.

Sina: I just want to very quickly tell everyone, being booked out two years in advance is just insane to me. When you came to me and said, "Listen, Sina, I'm booked out until 2026 or 2027," I was like, "Are you confusing the years? Because that's two years. I don't understand how that is possible." So you have your entire calendar full, and now you're planning...

Rubia: And you're very well known in the industry. People trust you, but no one knows what's going on behind the scenes. I'm going to share a little bit about my pregnancy, can I?

Sina: Yeah, of course.

Rubia: It's really hard when you try to plan when to have babies around that calendar. You can't really plan anything. We don't realize how much stress we're putting on our bodies and minds. So that alone is a huge struggle. I started my business, and then I knew I wanted to take the next step and start my family. So there was a lot of planning and a lot of fear. What if my baby is here when I have a lot of commitments with weddings? How am I going to find another makeup artist and do that? Just all of those things. And I had three miscarriages. That was a really painful time in my life. But again, due to the nature of this business, you can't take a break. You can't stop in grief and let your body heal. You're just constantly working without realizing how much it's consuming you from within. Now, Alhamdulillah, I have a healthy baby boy. He's ten months old. But after this, I was just so exhausted. I went into this darkest hole, and I was like, everything is so good. I am well known in the industry. I'm getting booked out. I have really good cash flow. So what's the problem? It's when your business consumes you. It requires you to be there every single day. And it's not just the makeup artistry. You're doing ten different jobs behind the scenes.

Sina: Of course. Yeah. And one of the things people don't realize when they hear things like miscarriage is that you were pregnant four times. You told me earlier that in the four years you were in business...

Rubia: In business, I was pregnant four times.

Sina: Wow. And that also takes such a toll, especially in the first couple of weeks, having that fear. Do you feel like part of this could have been because of the stress?

Rubia: It could be, but you never know what the actual reason is. We actually did a whole series of tests to find out, and there was nothing wrong. Physically, there was nothing wrong. So I can only imagine how much stress we're putting our minds under. That plays a huge role.

Sina: I think that's something that men try to understand, but it's very difficult to know. Especially in the first couple of weeks where you're just like, I need to take care of everything, plus the nausea that a lot of women are struggling with. And how do you prepare your body for this incredible journey while you're also trying to build a life to be ready for that baby once it arrives? I think it's a lot mentally.

Rubia: It's a lot of mental pressure. And I worked throughout my pregnancy, even with Musa. I only took six weeks off. Because again, when you have the wrong structure, you're required to be there. You don't have a choice to just pause. When you stop, your business stops. And that's the most unhealthy way to run a business.

Sina: So when did you say, "I need to change something. It can't keep going on like this"? When was that moment?

Rubia: I was coming back from a wedding. It was a very successful day. I was running on, I think, only a couple of hours of sleep. I was exhausted, postpartum exhaustion. I pumped in the car going to the wedding, and I was pumping on my way back home. When I went home and looked at my son, I was like, "I don't have any energy to give to him." And my heart just broke into a million pieces. That was the moment where I thought everything needs to change. Because if it doesn't change, I can't continue doing this. The problem is that people who are successful in the industry aren't ready to admit that there's something wrong with the roots of the business they're running. They need to change something. They're like, "No, you know, that's how it is." No. It shouldn't be like this. That's when I came across one of your videos, and I broke down into tears. I'm like, "No. This is what I need. This is what my soul needs."

Sina: I'm so grateful that it came at the right time. And when we first spoke, I told you I have a special commitment to any mothers joining the program because I understand the mental pressure, the physical pressure, nursing, pumping on the way back, things like that. Also, the pressure it takes on your marriage while you're having this child plus the business. And I told you, "I have this dream for you that you're sitting on the beach..."

Rubia: With my baby. Yes, I remember.

Sina: So now Musa is with your husband at the beach.

Rubia: Yes. And I'm here.

Sina: I want to talk about the entire journey because I think it's so inspirational for women in general, but especially moms or women who want to become moms but have that fear in the background that they will be exhausted or burn out. So let's talk a little bit about the different levels. Tell us a little bit more about how you grew your social media and why you feel like it was successful. How did you grow your personal brand?

Rubia: When I started my makeup business, I used all my graphic design skills to create my personal brand. Because in this industry, if you're unable to showcase your skills properly, you're going to stay behind. We need to showcase everything in a very raw way where clients can trust you without ever meeting you for their biggest days.

Sina: And how do you do that?

Rubia: I basically film all the process videos where they can see how it's going to look from start to end. Then the more you do it, the more experienced you become as well.

Sina: Yeah. One of the things I see on your page is, number one, you use your unfair advantage, which is great. You have the graphic design background. I also think you have a real unfair advantage in terms of aesthetics. You like high quality. You like it to look crisp. When I look at your page, it actually looks like something on TV. That's how crisp it looks, Mashallah.

Rubia: Thank you.

Sina: Do you feel like that is something that helped you stand out?

Rubia: That helped a lot. I taught myself lighting and how to film the process videos, how I could film without being in front of the camera, and how to keep the angles really good so it's still really aesthetically pleasing. Now so many makeup artists even travel interstate just to learn how I film videos. So that became my signature style.

Sina: So you have a skill. You're showing the skill, but in the process of showing the skill, you're showing us a different skill that people also want to pay you for. You're making money from the service, you're making money from teaching, and you got booked out two years in advance. Then you say, "Okay, my little one, I don't have energy to spend time with you. I need to change something." Tell us about the moment you found out about the program and thought, "Yes, I need to do this."

Rubia: I was very depressed, I want to say, deep down. I wasn't ready to admit it. On my socials, I'm very present for my clients. I was there with the biggest smile on my face, but deep down, I knew something was wrong and it needed to change. I'm scrolling on Instagram, and one of your videos popped up. I'm listening to it and I'm like, "Oh my God. Every single word resonates with my situation." I went back to your page and I think I watched 20 of your videos in a row. I was like, "Oh my God. I can't stop watching her." The same day, I signed up for your program. And I think it has been one of the best investments in my business. Not only because you're showing me how to run my business properly, but the mindset is priceless. You can't put a price on it. I wasn't seeing myself the way I should have been seeing myself. You have the skills. You know what you're doing. You're so genuine about your work. Why are you undervaluing it so much? That's when I discovered myself. I discovered my why. Why I'm doing it and why I need to continue doing it.

Sina: What do you feel was the biggest difference between your mindset back then and your mindset now?

Rubia: How to value myself. How to value my work, my worth, my time, and how to attract clients instead of chasing them. All of these things. And even if you just look at one thing, it's going to shift everything for you in your personal life and in your work life as well.

Sina: We'll come to the results now, but why do you think you saw results so quickly?

Rubia: Because I implemented everything blindly. Once I trusted you with my business, everything you told me, I didn't even question it. I didn't think for a second. I just got to work. Even though I was burned out, I had so much physical work to do. I had lessons every day, bridal on the weekends, and I had my baby. I made it work to make those things happen that you taught me. And now I'm out of that burnout cycle so quickly. Within four months, I've seen the magic happen.

Sina: Wow. People always use this word "burnout." But what did it look like in the worst moments of your burnout? What did it feel like?

Rubia: You cannot think about anything. It's a complete shutdown because your body is shutting down from all the exhaustion. And being a creative person, the worst thing that could happen is going blank. You can't think about anything. You're constantly trying to find ways to run away from all the responsibilities and the things you once loved a lot. It affects every single aspect of your life. That's when I knew this was the extreme of burnout. This wasn't a joke anymore. This wasn't going to go away if I took a day off and just rested. This needed proper guidance.

Sina: Yeah. You said earlier that you did it because you loved it. This is something a lot of women experience. We do the business because we love it, and we do every part of it. Every single part of the business is us. Then it gives us so much pressure and overwhelms us so much that we start hating it and resenting it. That's when you feel like, "Why did I even..."

Rubia: As I told you earlier, content creation is one of the things I love so much. Not just being a makeup artist. Being a graphic designer, that's my creative outlet. But last year, when I went through that burnout phase, I couldn't even look at my content. I was like, "I cannot create any more content. I don't like it. I don't know how I'm going to survive moving forward." And once you stop doing that, your business is going to take a toll because you're not present for your clients on social media all the time. That's when I knew something needed to change. Actually, everything needed to change.

Sina: So that's level two now, get paid to be you. You had a six-month-old baby. You said, "I need to change something because I work this many hours." How many hours did you work at that point every day?

Rubia: Oh my God, a lot. You could easily say I worked 12 hours a day, almost every day. I was even trying to work with Musa by my side. And the mental pressure, I can't even explain it in words.

Sina: I just want people to realize the calculation behind this, the math behind this. You were literally working 84 hours a week, and you were still not making the money that would give you the freedom to say, "Okay, I can take a vacation. I can take a day off whenever I want."

Rubia: Yeah.

Sina: So what did we change? What was the first thing?

Rubia: We changed everything. We changed my mindset, and we started by working on the roots of the business. We polished everything. You helped me see my value, and you showed me how to attract the right clientele, not chase them.

Sina: When we talk about attracting, what does that mean? And what does the right clientele mean?

Rubia: The right clientele means that you can structure your offers the way you want. You can price those offers based on the value you're going to give to your clients, and the people who are aligned with those values will find you. They will book you for who you are. If they see your values, they will respect them, rather than you posting every single day and being like, "Hey, I have this booking available. Please book me." I see so many people offering discounts in slow seasons. They try to discount so many things just to get that client in, which is the wrong way. It's a toxic culture. Hustle culture is toxic culture. So now I say, it's not going to be "booked and busy." It's going to be "aligned and abundant."

Sina: Oh, I love that. From B-class to A-class. Okay, tell us a little bit about your prices before versus your prices now. What did we do?

Rubia: When we first talked, I told you that the normal pricing in Australia was around $220 for bridal makeup.

Sina: And I had a heart attack.

Rubia: Yes. Especially because of the hours we put in. And it's not just the service. It's all the behind-the-scenes effort, the time, the products, everything. It's just a lot. But at the time, I was like, "You know, that's such good money. I can't charge anyone more than that." And you're like, "No. What are you doing?" If I booked a bridal party, the whole team on the day, I would charge roughly around $1,200 to $1,500. That was my one-day income, working for such long hours. And you told me to increase my prices three times, or I think four times. And I'm like, "I can't do it. I can't." But again, I trusted you. I did it the proper way, and I booked so many brides with my new package.

Sina: Tell us about the first time you booked a bride for your new package. How much did you make that day?

Rubia: I booked my bride for $4K. So imagine booking someone for $1,200 and then booking someone for $4K. My skills hadn't changed. Nothing had changed. Just the value. The value I saw in myself and the value I could give them. I booked my first bride for $4K on the same day you told me to increase my pricing.

Sina: On the same day?

Rubia: Yeah.

Sina: Okay. So I want to tell you this. I told my husband after the onboarding call with you, "Rubia is going to make a lot of money." He's like, "Why? Is there anything special about her? About her offer? About her business?" I'm like, "Oh, she just does what I tell her to do." I felt like you're going to do what I tell you to do, and you're going to make a lot of money. And that's what I always say. My best mentees and the people I love working with, I tell them A, they do A. I tell them B, they do B. Then you see the result and you trust yourself because you've done C to Z for a lot of years and it didn't work.

Rubia: So why not try? And sometimes, if things don't make sense to you, they don't need to make sense to you. Just do it because you're telling me from experience. You know that strategy is going to work. It will make sense to me when the time comes.

Sina: But you're not making most of the money from the service anymore. Well, you're making a lot of money from the service itself, but our big goal was to get you from the service to charging for a transformation instead.

Rubia: Yes.

Sina: So what does that look like?

Rubia: The month I made the most money, and it's crazy to say it out loud, was the month where I physically worked the least.

Sina: Wow.

Rubia: I wasn't converting my physical hours into money. It's something I already had, and I knew how to present it. That month doesn't feel real.

Sina: I want to know because I was on maternity leave, and I just heard from my team. It was a couple of days after each other. They're like, "Yeah, Rubia just made $16K yesterday." Then two days later, it was a weekend, they said, "Rubia just made $32K." And four days later, they were like, "Rubia just made $58K." I was like, "$58,000 in a month?"

Rubia: Two weeks.

Sina: Two weeks. Yeah. Okay, so I told you earlier, I'm not surprised, but I'm proud of you.

Rubia: Thank you so much. So actually, it's now $75K.

Sina: Yes. Okay, everyone, break that down a little bit. From earning $15 an hour...

Rubia: Yes.

Sina: To charging $220...

Rubia: Yes.

Sina: To making $75,000...

Rubia: A month.

Sina: Yes. Wow. How do you feel?

Rubia: I can feel the freedom now. I feel so much happier. I feel aligned now. My mind is clearing up. I'm back to my happy, creative self. I'm more present with Musa. And now there's less stress about when the next client is going to come, or thinking, "I need to get booked in 2028 in order to make it." So freedom, I think.

Sina: Tell us a little bit more about the $75,000. How many clients is that?

Rubia: You're not going to believe it. I think it's only around ten clients. Ten or twelve. I'll have to do the math.

Sina: In a month, versus 12 clients a day?

Rubia: Yes.

Sina: Wow. I'm so proud of you.

Rubia: Thank you so much.

Sina: Okay, so I actually have a gift for you. Every mentee who hits a certain monthly income, and you blew it out of the park, gets a gift. Number one, you're here in Dubai.

Rubia: Yes.

Sina: I hope you're enjoying it with your husband.

Rubia: Thank you so much for having us over.

Sina: Of course.

Rubia: You're spoiling us.

Sina: I want you to experience the Dubai lifestyle. And then second, because it's Garden Mentoring and we know we don't chase, we attract, I'm going to give you a little gift. This is a forever rose. I want you to keep it.

Rubia: Oh, thank you so much.

Sina: Congratulations on the success. And second, this is a reminder to keep growing your garden and keep attracting whatever you want and desire in your life.

Rubia: Thank you so much. Oh my God.

Sina: Whenever you look at it, you can remember, "I trust my worth, and the butterflies are going to come to my garden." Anyone who doesn't understand the butterfly reference hasn't been following along.

Rubia: Yes.

Sina: What did you feel when you first heard the idea of the garden and the butterfly?

Rubia: It just all made sense. That's also what I want to talk about. You showed me how to build that garden and attract the butterflies. I had a subscription channel where I had over 2,000 students, but I was doing it completely the wrong way. I had this amazing channel where I was teaching everything I could to make it accessible for everyone. I was offering masterclasses and live sessions. I think that's something that triggered my anxiety the most because I was available for them 24/7. If you were my subscriber, you could message me anytime and I would help you out. At first, it felt amazing. But again, it was consuming me so much. I was giving everything to everyone. It drained me. But now, the way you've shown me how to do it is to have a proper structure and offer, and the right people will come to you. You don't just put it out on your social media and hope for the best and say, "Whoever needs it will come and buy." You first find your people, and then you give them what they need.

Sina: And I think that's such a normal thing for a lot of women. We want to give so much value for free, and you can do that. That's what social media is for. But if anyone wants that special access, they want the secrets, they're the ones who are going to invest. And I think one of the things a lot of women need to understand is those people are out there. The people who aren't going to ask for the price. They're not going to ask for discounts. They just want the value. They want the transformation. And now, how much are people paying you for the transformation you give them?

Rubia: Now I have students who are signing up for $8,000 to $16,000 courses.

Sina: Wow. I'm so proud of you because I remember fighting you on the pricing.

Rubia: Pricing, yes. And I was like, "No, you don't understand. Who's going to pay for this?" I didn't know how to present my offers or even if I had something proper to offer. Even though you said I was overdelivering. Even though I was doing that, I still didn't know how much I was worth.

Sina: So a lot of women underprice and overdeliver. And I always say there's no such thing as overpricing. I'd rather you overprice and overdeliver than underprice and overdeliver. Because what that leads to is burnout. At some point, you won't be able to overdeliver, or deliver at all, because you're so burned out. Then it just breaks.

Rubia: Everything just consumes you. And I want to mention that with a successful business, people looking at it from the outside might be like, "Oh my God, Rubia is just not being grateful because her business is everything I want." Success is different for everyone. And I want to talk about it more openly. You can have a six-figure business and still burn to the ground because it's consuming you, and it's not going to run like that for years to come. There was a time when I was on so many luxury makeup brands' PR lists, which is a huge thing. There are so many brands that sponsor my masterclasses. So you have everything, but you're not happy because you're literally trading yourself for that money. There came a point where I would still get all these packages, and I wasn't even excited to look at them. I wouldn't open them for weeks. They'd just sit there collecting dust. That showed me everything. I was burning my business to the ground because I was doing it the wrong way.

Sina: Yeah. So that's where the feminine method comes in. What do you feel has been the biggest shift for you in your daily lifestyle, going from that masculine hustle to the feminine?

Rubia: Oh my God. Everything's changed. I feel like a different person now. We are meant for soft lives. We're not meant for that hustle culture. I'm so much calmer, more relaxed, and excited for every day and what that day is going to bring. Now I'm even more excited to work with my students. I know I can give them so much value, and the impact is going to be so much bigger than working with 2,000 people.

Sina: Yes. It's such a big difference because I hear this all the time. A lot of people still promote this masculine way of business. You discount your offers. You have the lowest price for the highest value. You try to reach as many people as possible, go viral, and then push your product on people because the more people you have at a low price...

Rubia: The more people can pay.

Sina: More people can pay a low price. The feminine way is so funny because when I talk to women about it, the first intuitive thought is, "I want this." But the logical thought is, "That's not possible." Premium prices, attracting clients instead of chasing them, having those soft mornings with your baby. And you're still working.

Rubia: It's not like we're lazy.

Sina: No. But we're enjoying the morning, and we're enjoying the time with our clients. And I think the biggest difference is also that you don't have to work with everyone. You can choose.

Rubia: Choose. There were a few people where I didn't feel the alignment and where I didn't feel that I could deliver what they expected me to deliver. So I politely declined. Because now I have my dream students. The people I want to work with. The people who see actual value in my work.

Sina: Yeah. And I think there's a huge misconception and this myth going around that having a business, working hard, or making a lot of money doesn't equate to being feminine. I feel like the most feminine thing you can do is know that you can make money. If I put my mind to it and spoke to five people today, I could make $5K today. But I don't need to or I don't want to. I want to spend time with my child because tomorrow the money is going to come in. I can hear the notifications on my phone. The more you understand that you have the power to make money, the more feminine you can be. And one of the things I want to talk about is your life as a mom and wife now. Because I feel like being burned out, working, hustling the whole time, and being in your masculine the whole time takes such a toll on your husband as well. How did that affect your marriage and your role at home?

Rubia: I think when you have a lot of mental pressure, you slowly start unloading that onto your partner. There's just this negative energy in the house. I've been with my husband for 21 years now. We're childhood sweethearts.

Sina: No way. That is so cute.

Rubia: We were only 12.

Sina: Mashallah.

Rubia: Of course, I don't think we knew what love was back then, looking back at being 12 years old, but we've been inseparable ever since.

Sina: May Allah bless your union forever.

Rubia: So living with your best friend, and you know he's a very supportive husband, it's like living with your best friend and your biggest supporter in your business. Even he was giving all his energy to take some of my mental load. If I had to wake up at two in the morning, it affected his life as well. If I was away for the whole day and working seven days a week, it affected his life directly. So slowly, I think it was creeping into our marriage, and I could feel the tension. We both could feel the tension. Again, that was the biggest reminder that the person who loves me this much, who has given me all these years and his support, wasn't getting the best of me. And I felt like I didn't have any option. How can I stop working and just be there for him? That's not going to work because we have bills to pay. So maybe that's how it's meant to be. But no. That's not how it's meant to be.

Sina: How is the energy between you different now?

Rubia: I'm just so much happier now. You know, when I'm happy, he's happier. I'm present. I feel like now I know what I'm doing. We get to enjoy our weekdays even more. When he comes home from work, I'm not exhausted with a million ideas in my head. I haven't worked with 100 people that day, trying to solve all their problems, and then been unable to be present for him. So our days now look a lot more relaxed, happier, and calmer. And when the weekend comes and I have my brides, I'm so much more energetic, charged, relaxed, and rested as well. It shows in your work. It shows on your social media. Everything.

Sina: And I think a lot of people underestimate that. Someone wants to be super feminine. Like, "I want to wake up my husband with a beautiful breakfast and do these small things." But if I'm burned out, I can't even feed myself. So how can I be that for my husband? And men, especially supportive men, want to solve your problems. But if you're in that mental space of, "I need to do everything myself," you're also repelling the masculine. So I want to know now, what's the next step? What's the next goal you have for your business?

Rubia: The next goal is just to expand it and scale it on so many levels that I can't even imagine. I'm going to break all the boundaries, but at the same time keep all the healthy boundaries in place. Because now I have a proper structure, so I know it's not going to burn me out.

Sina: Nice. So we're going to get to six figures a month at least. Ideally, the high six figures a month. I asked her for her goal earlier, and I was like, "Per month?"

Rubia: $250K.

Sina: Yes. Per month. And she's like, "Per month? Is that big?" Yes. It's definitely possible. That's level three. So we need to get your systems up and running and make sure your team is in place so you can actually have your slow mornings and scale at the same time.

Rubia: Yeah. Another thing everyone should understand is that we don't need to wear all the hats. That's another toxic masculine way to do it. We think, "This is my business. It's my baby. I need to do every single thing in order to make it successful." You're never going to expand and scale if you're not ready to delegate your work. That's another thing you need to learn, how to delegate properly and how to make everything work for you instead of you working for it.

Sina: Yes. So what would you say to the old Rubia now, as you're living this life with your baby, your husband, and your business?

Rubia: To the old Rubia, I would say that the darkest hole you're going through, keep going. It's actually a pathway to the most beautiful freedom you're going to experience.

Sina: I'm so glad. Thank you. It's so beautiful to have you here.

Rubia: No, thank you for having me.

Sina: Thanks for coming. I want to say one more thing. What would you tell other mothers who might be going through the same thing you've been through while building a business? What's one thing you've learned that they need to apply right now?

Rubia: You need to change your mindset. Or if you haven't started your business, you need to start with the right mindset. If you have that core value, the roots are going to be really strong. It doesn't matter what kind of business you're doing or what level it's on. It's going to thrive and expand. If your mindset isn't there, it's not going to work out.

Sina: And how can they work on their mindset? What's the advice you would give? I think the biggest thing is to invest in yourself. You told me when you joined that you had money put aside and were planning to put it into something else. Walk us through that moment.

Rubia: I'm going to launch my own beauty brand soon, Insha'Allah. I had savings put aside for that project. But I knew that if I was feeling that way, if my brain was so blank, I wouldn't be able to sell anything. My brand was going to be a failure even before I launched it. I could see it coming. So I came across your page, and then there was a choice. Where do I invest that money? Maybe I could invest it in my brand and it would be a huge success. Maybe I didn't need to invest in this course. But then I knew that if I didn't know how to promote my brand or present my value, I was never going to make it successful. So I made the choice to invest in your course, which has been the biggest blessing for me. Because now I know, even if I start ten other businesses, I know how to make them work. I know how to make them successful. Investing in yourself is the most important thing that people don't realize they need to do before starting anything. Again, it doesn't matter what scale you're at. Investment in yourself is the most important thing you can do.

Sina: Yeah. Because you're running the business. You are the business. You are the brand. For everyone who doesn't know the butterfly story, it's one of the stories that changed my life. That was when I was burned out. I was in a similar place where I had all the degrees, all the work, but I was still chasing clients. And my mentor asked me, "How do you catch butterflies?" I was like, "Oh, just run after them with this net thing you see in comics, and you'll get them." And he said, "No. The point is you don't chase butterflies. You build a garden, and you let them come to you." And that is what your personal brand is. I'm so glad that it resonated with you. And the investment part is such a huge point. You are the business. You are the brand. And if you don't invest in yourself, and that's the same with your own sanity, being able to sleep...

Rubia: Being able to be with your husband...

Sina: Being there for your child, seeing them grow up, and actually being there. That's going to be the fuel for the money that comes in.

Rubia: If you don't pour into yourself the right way, you won't be able to do anything. And even if we separate the business side of life, your personal life is going to fall apart as well because you're not nurturing yourself the way you should.

Sina: Yes. And that's the feminine way.

Rubia: We need to nurture ourselves.

Sina: So if you're in the same position and you say, "Listen, I have a baby, I have a family, and I'm burned out," or you're planning to have a family and you know your current business setup isn't going to help you get there and live your soft life, live your soft mornings while the payment notifications are coming in, then make sure you book a call. We'll talk about how we can build your personal brand, whether you're at level one, level two, or even level three. You can book a call with my team, and we'll figure out how to get you to that feminine business that's also going to make you a lot of money. And our next step for you is seven figures, six figures a month. So we'll see each other here next time when we hit that goal.

Rubia: I can't wait. Insha'Allah.

Sina: Insha'Allah. Thank you so much for coming on.

Rubia: Thank you for having me.

Sina: Don't forget to like and subscribe. It will help us reach more women who need that feminine approach to business.

Sina: She had been working 12-hour night shifts as a doctor in the hospital.

Hannah: I just went home one night after my 12th shift in a row, and I just fainted on the sidewalk. My heart stopped beating for a moment.

Sina: Then she started her business and burned out again.

Hannah: I actually came to you very desperately. I was at a point where I had to ask a friend to order me food online because I couldn't pay for it.

Sina: Why?

Hannah: My first Reel got half a million views. But now I know followers don't equal money.

Sina: Because 99% of women who start a business stop because they burn out.

Hannah: People asked me for advice, and I couldn't really convert that into high-paying clients.

Sina: What was your first step that made you almost give up again?

Hannah: People were constantly asking me for advice, like, "Can you help me with this? Oh, you're a doctor." People asked for just a quick tip.

Sina: Once she joined my mentoring, she started making €15,000 in one week. Now she's scaled to multiple five-figure months.

Hannah: My average now is between €40K and €50K a month.

Sina: How much did you make last month?

Hannah: I felt like I was working the least, and I made...

Sina: What is it that you learned in the mentoring that made that shift to hit €50K without the burnout?

Hannah: I would say two things. Being specific about my dream client and increasing prices.

Sina: Have you ever been at the point where you're making money in your business, but you're secretly burning out? You're exhausted, working hours and hours, spending your time scaling, but you're scaling your time as well. That means you're scaling exhaustion and stress. Have you ever wondered how you can get out of this burnout cycle? Because 99% of women who start a business stop because they burn out. Today, I have a guest, a repeat guest on the podcast, who knows everything about burnout and scaling her business. She came the first time to us talking about the burnout she had working 12- hour night shifts as a doctor in the hospital. Then she started growing her business and burned out again because she wasn't attracting the right clients. Once she joined my mentoring, she started making €15,000 in one week. Now she's scaled to multiple five-figure months. Today, we're going to talk about how to escape burnout, but also how to scale from €10K months to €50K months while enjoying a slow morning and your matcha at the beach. Welcome, Hannah. Welcome back. So, you're back on the podcast. We had so many comments from our last episode. I want to read some of the comments. For anyone who hasn't seen the last podcast, here are some of the most liked comments from our last episode. One is really emotional, and I wanted to read it to you because I think it can relate to so many health professionals who are also in the field burning out. "Here, this just proves you don't have to buy into the idea that you need to grind 24/7 or trade your time for money. You can choose your own path, do what you love, and still make money work for you." This is the one that got both of us in tears. "My legendary father died of A.D. withdrawal symptoms, suicide caused by medication symptoms, would be very proud of this wise woman." And we had so many more comments from healthcare professionals who are working in the field and are tired of prescribing medication, you know, just numbing symptoms. They see that they're trying to heal someone else by giving them medication, but they're also burning out themselves. They're also sick themselves. So for anyone who doesn't know your journey, can you tell us a little bit more about that backstory? When did you know that the burnout was too much when you worked in the hospital?

Hannah: Well, what comes to my mind first is that you live your life forwards and you understand it backwards. So back then, I didn't understand. And I'm talking about the specific point, but maybe a little bit about me first. I'm a German doctor. I grew up in a small German village, and I always had this dream since I was little. I grew up with parents in the healthcare field. Then I just worked myself up. I was always a really hard worker. I studied medicine, got into medical school, then started residency. And I really loved the job. Like many of those comments also show, I really loved helping people. I really loved helping people heal. I wanted to be that detective who actually got behind the real root cause of the symptoms. But the environment was what was burning me out. Those late hours, working 12 shifts in a row without any day off, three, four, or five night shifts in a row, not really having any time off for myself, skipping meals because I literally didn't have any time to eat. But I also understood that my body was so stressed, I wasn't hungry. And what was fatal behind this was that it was normalized. I think a lot of people in the healthcare system can resonate with that. "Oh, it's normal that you don't have time to eat." Or, "It's normal that you don't have a weekend off because you work in a hospital." That got to me to a point where I just went home one night after my 12th shift in a row, and I just fainted on the sidewalk. My heart stopped beating for a moment. That had to happen, sadly, for me to realize I couldn't continue like this. Even in that moment, I went home. I was crying on my bathroom floor for a week. And I literally asked myself, "Do I really want to quit?" Looking back now to this point, I don't understand how I couldn't see it. But back then, I was so in this tunnel of pressure that I had to make it, that I had to pursue this career, this profession. I had to make it. This pressure came from my external world, from colleagues, from family, from coworkers, from the way I grew up. I completely forgot how I was actually feeling and how my body was talking to me.

Sina: Yeah. And we saw that last time as well with the feedback that a lot of people gave through the episode. The job you took to make other people healthy secretly made you sick.

Hannah: And that's ironic, isn't it? Because, I mean, I should actually help people heal. And the sickest people in the hospital, to me, weren't the patients. They were the doctors and the healthcare workers. I realized that afterwards because when I finally had the courage, and it took a lot of courage, to step out of this and actually decide, "I will quit," I was leaving not only this profession and this job behind. Every healthcare worker can resonate. It's not only a job.

Sina: Yes. It's a calling.

Hannah: Yeah. It's something that is so attached to your identity and to your existence that if you leave it, it feels like you're almost dying. And not only dying physically, but dying internally.

Sina: But that's also something that I always see in a lot of women who have a business. They see it as a purpose. They see it as the impact they want to make. And if that is burning them out, it crushes them even more. It's not just a random job that makes me money. It's something that you feel like is your calling. We even got some comments on the last podcast where people said, "I'm a fitness trainer, and I've seen that I'm trying to make other people healthy, but in the meantime, I'm burning out because I'm on my feet 12 hours a day. I'm not eating. I'm not sleeping properly." And then you're making money. How much were you making at the time as a doctor? Because I want to preface this. Germany. Doctor. Whenever we hear that, and this is the funny thing we see in a lot of movies or TV shows, it's like, "What are you going to be when you grow up?" "I want to be a doctor." And it means you're going to make a lot of money, right? You have that status. So take the curtain away. Tell us a little bit. How much did you make?

Hannah: In my best month, I did €4K to €4.5K.

Sina: Wow.

Hannah: And again, it shows me how much our environment shapes us. Because back then, my family, my coworkers, my friends, everyone told me, "Oh, this is a lot of money." When I was leaving, they said, "How can you leave the safe job behind? How can you leave the prestige behind? How can you leave so much money behind that you're getting every single month?" Yeah. How ironic. I'm making more than ten times more now a month. I can reveal that now. But I think it has a lot to do with the environment that you're in, which completely changed when I got into this entrepreneurial world. I saw people making five, even six figures a month. That wasn't in my reality. It wasn't part of my reality. And I think that was key, to see that I needed to work 50, 60, sometimes 70 hours a week.

Sina: We're going to get to all of that.

Hannah: But I had to work that much because I had the limiting belief, and you know that because we're both German, that the more you work, the harder you work, the more money you have, the more you earn, the more you're worth. So that has a lot to do with the self-worth attached to the job. That's a lot of where I came from.

Sina: Yeah. So tell us then. You made the switch. Within Garden Mentoring, we always talk about, "We don't chase, we attract." You don't catch butterflies. You build a garden and let them come to you. So that hustle of trying to get the job, trying to get the money, trying to get the prestige, and seeing yourself as someone who has that value because you have this job. Then we go into level one, become known to be you. Level two, get paid to be you. Tell us how that initial step was because you went from one burnout to the next. And that's a lot of times the trap that people fall into. "Let's leave the safe job. Let's build a business." It sounds shiny and amazing. What was your first step that made you almost give up again?

Hannah: Well, I was growing this audience online because I was sharing my story. I was sharing my why. And it almost blew up overnight. My first Reel got half a million views. Within the first four weeks, I turned an almost dead, very private account into 10,000 followers. After three months, I had 30,000 followers. But now I know followers don't equal money, and followers don't equal high- paying clients. The problem was that people were constantly asking me for advice. "Can you help me with this? Oh, you're a doctor, and you went through this and solved it for yourself." Because obviously, on the way, I learned all these techniques and tools to regulate my nervous system, to work with the body, and now I'm completely healed. But people asked me for this advice, and I couldn't really convert that into high- paying clients.

Sina: Why? Why do you think that was?

Hannah: I think part of it was that I wasn't seeing my worth. I felt like, "You know, I was making €4K to €5K as a doctor, so I can't charge that for one client, for example." And I had to actually learn that I needed to be very specific about the person I wanted to work with. Because all kinds of people were coming. The people who asked for discounts. The people who asked for just a quick fix, just a quick tip. "Can you help me with this? Can you help me with that?" And no, I can't. I mean, I can help everyone on my social media platform. I'm giving so much free advice. But I also had to see my value and realize that I can actually charge more for this.

Sina: We're skipping a big part. Because I remember when you first came to me, this conversation that we had. We know the burnout part. That moment where things couldn't go lower at the job. Tell us more about what happened a year later when you were in your business. I remember you told me about not being able to pay for food and groceries.

Hannah: Yeah. So I was building this huge online audience, but I honestly didn't know how to attract the right people. I didn't know how to set up my offer. What was my offer actually? And how do I go through all these steps? I started to work with people one-on-one, but I had really low prices, and that burned me out. We had around €1,000 per client per month. That was really burning me out because I also wasn't attracting the right people. Everyone who works in the healthcare system, or in any other system, or has their own business and has clients who are robbing them of their energy, that was my case. And I was also starting to travel the world. Building a business also takes a lot of money in the beginning. I'm very much willing to invest, but if you don't have the money, there's no chance. It's not coming back. At some point, I remember I was in Dubai, which is maybe not even the most expensive place in the world, and I was at a point where I had to ask a friend to actually order me food online because I couldn't pay for it. I think 99% of people would have just said, "Okay, I'm leaving. I go back to my country. I go back to my safe job." And that was another turning point. Staying with that fear and staying with that belief that it's going to work out, that it's just a setback, brought me to where I am today.

Sina: Definitely. And it's also something that I think a lot of people don't realize. They see people have 30,000 or 50,000 followers. How many followers did you have at this point?

Hannah: I think back then I was at 50,000 followers.

Sina: And you just think followers equal money.

Hannah: Yeah.

Sina: How else? If I have the audience, I will definitely make money. And you don't know what's happening behind the scenes.

Hannah: It's also a lot about the right people. I now know accounts that have 2,000, 3,000, 5,000 followers, and they're making six figures a month.

Sina: Yeah. We just had a mentee join with 200 followers, and she made her first €5K in the first...

Hannah: Yeah. And then I know six-figure accounts, so over 100,000 followers, and they can barely afford their rent.

Sina: Yeah. So that doesn't have to say anything. Then you came into level two, and we met in Bali. I think it's a little bit over a year ago.

Hannah: Yeah. It was September 2024.

Sina: Okay. Wow. I remember. So just for everyone who knows the backstory, I don't think a lot of people know. There were a couple of things going on at the same time. First of all, we were both in Bali coincidentally. It's not like we came together. I was there with my...

Hannah: I don't believe in coincidences.

Sina: True. Very true at this point. So maybe...

Hannah: Yeah. It's actually falling into place.

Sina: Exactly. So you were there, I think, for a month already or two. I came there with my husband, with my, at the time, one-year-old. And then a week later, we just met up for yoga at a place. Bali reminds me of Malaysia. I lived in Malaysia for such a long time. It's just such a nice island place. It's not very expensive, so you can kind of breathe and collect yourself. And we were there. A couple of things were going on at the same time. First of all, you were the first one who told me...

Hannah: That you're pregnant.

Sina: That I'm pregnant. So my doctor friend. I just thought I had Bali belly, and you're like, "Sina, are you sure you have Bali belly? I think you're pregnant."

Hannah: And now she has a daughter.

Sina: Yes. You're also the first one who heard the baby's heartbeat. So that was very cute.

Hannah: Yeah. That was.

Sina: And then we came together and started talking about business.

Hannah: Because when you meet Sina, I mean, if you have a person like Sina in your life and you have friends like this, to be honest, you cannot not talk about business. And to be fairly honest, every time we meet, I block time after we meet. I think I never told you.

Sina: No.

Hannah: Whenever we meet, I literally block time in my calendar afterwards because every time we meet, there is an explosion of creativity and business ideas. And I have to set it up immediately. I just need time for that. Honestly, that's a real story. And this is also going back to the toxic work environment. That's a contrast. People who uplift you give you energy. Your business is supposed to give you energy and not drain you.

Sina: Yeah. So we meet. A week later, what happened?

Hannah: Well, I actually came to you very desperately with, you know, the setup of not being able to afford food. And we started level two together. A week later, I made my first five figures. I made €15K in one week.

Sina: Okay. Now you're at how much?

Hannah: My average now is between €40K and €50K.

Sina: Okay. A month. And I will ask you later how much you made last month.

Hannah: Okay.

Sina: Okay, don't say that. And how much you made that time. I don't want you to reveal that yet. I want to be surprised as well. So, what were the first steps that we took? What was the biggest shift? Let's talk about this. What was the biggest shift between €1K and €15K? Or €1K and then, at the time, I think you made €30K that month. What's the biggest shift between starting from zero and that first kind of big jump?

Hannah: I would say two things. Being specific about my dream client and increasing prices. And both come together because if you're talking about your dream client, your dream client can afford the increased prices. That was a huge step. I think most of it was about the mindset shift.

Sina: Because tell us, what did we fight about? Also, what I fight about with all of...

Hannah: We fought about increasing the prices. Because I was like, "Sina, that's too much." We actually put that offer to €8K, which was at €1K before. I was like, "Sina, that's too much."

Sina: And we negotiated.

Hannah: We did.

Sina: We started at €2K, by the way.

Hannah: I know.

Sina: Then it went to €5K, and then it's €8K. And now how much is your biggest package?

Hannah: My biggest package is at €18K.

Sina: Okay.

Hannah: And actually, I'm thinking about increasing that as well.

Sina: Okay. So that biggest mindset shift. There are different things. It took a mindset shift. It took a strategy shift. Why do you think it was so difficult to make that mindset shift? And what helped you make that shift?

Hannah: I think, especially as women, we are not growing up with the mindset that we are worthy of more. We should keep small, be cute and sweet, not take up space, and not be aware of our self-worth. So actually, role models and mentors definitely helped me. The program, just seeing that there are other people increasing their prices and they're doing it too. And actually, that triggered me a little bit because I was like, "I'm a freaking doctor, and they're charging ten times what I'm charging or what I make."

Sina: And they're not doctors. They might not even have a master's degree.

Hannah: No. They just have the guts to increase their prices.

Sina: Yes. So do you need to be a doctor in order to have high prices?

Hannah: No.

Sina: I get that question a lot. "Hannah just has it easy because she's a doctor," right?

Hannah: No. Honestly, I feel like it comes down to one thing. I just told that to my nail technician that I went to yesterday. She's going to start her own business. And I gave her business advice. She was actually doing my eyebrows and my lashes, and they're starting their own business. They had been talking and thinking about it for a year now. And I told her one thing. If you solve a problem for your client, the price is irrelevant. It doesn't matter. So it doesn't matter if you're professionally trained. It's also a German thing. I don't know about other countries, but you have to have a certification for something.

Sina: Yes. Yes.

Hannah: And that is the shift I had to make because I'm solving a problem for the person in front of me.

Sina: Yeah. And what was it that I told you that made you rethink, "Oh, wait. This is how it's supposed to be"? You mean the mindset shift?

Hannah: Yeah.

Sina: Well, also the strategy shift. Because now we're talking about solving a problem, right? I remember writing down the ideas you had for your offer, and then we worked on changing it. What was the biggest shift on the strategy part?

Hannah: For me, it was the dream client because I wasn't specific about who I wanted to work with before. That's why everyone came to me and wanted free advice or discounts or just a quick tip. So I needed to be very specific. And it's not a woman between her 30s and 40s. She's 35. Period.

Sina: Yes. And then a big thing that we did was also think about their income level, right? And who they are.

Hannah: Exactly.

Sina: Are they just a general person, or are they an entrepreneur?

Hannah: Exactly. And I chose an entrepreneur who actually has what I was going through because I already went through what they're going through now. And I solved that problem for myself, the burnout. So I can also solve that problem for them. I can solve the fact that they're burned out from their business. They have all kinds of symptoms. They're actually not growing in their business because it is attached to their health.

Sina: Yes. They're sick every two weeks, so they can't do work.

Hannah: Exactly.

Sina: And I remember when we talked about this. When we talked about both your mindset and your strategy, and this was like one sitting, we even have a recording of this. It's insane. One of the things that you just said now, I think, is a reason why a lot of people are burned out. We think, first of all, "Who's going to pay for this?" But we also think we need to overdeliver and undercharge. And that's the exact same reason why a lot of businesswomen are burning out. That's what I want to talk about today. This shift from burnout to actually building a business that grows and scales without you burning out. I think you were close to burnout in your business again. But what we needed to talk about was not just the offer to start with, but how does that look when you scale?

Hannah: Exactly.

Sina: Because if you scale an offer that's €1,000, €200, €500, then how many clients do you need a month? Ten? Twenty? That's a lot of work with a person. You have to be there 24/7 for them. And then you can't really scale because you're scaling your time. So the other part here is what you just talked about, the dream client. That was a huge shift. I remember you kept repeating that the dream client was a huge shift. Can you tell us what happened in the months after? How did we set up your offer to work with that dream client?

Hannah: I think one of the biggest mistakes young entrepreneurs make when they set up an offer is that they think they're the expert. Obviously, I am the doctor. I have the MD, PhD in front of my name or whatever certificate you might have or whatever you might do. But what we did was so mind-blowing to me because it sets you apart from 99% of the offers out there. I started to work a lot one-on-one. In the beginning, it was also time-consuming for me, but it was to actually get to another point, which was listening closely to these women I was working with. Because they gave me the answers. They made me realize, "Wait a second. I was talking to another client yesterday, and they told me the same thing." "Oh, wait a second. I told the other client three days ago the exact same thing." And I'm not a parrot. Don't get me wrong, I love working with people, but I also need to retain my energy. I need to recharge my batteries when I go for massages, meet with friends, or go on my evening walk with a matcha. And that's when we actually started to scale this offer because we went from completely doing one-on-one to going hybrid. I started to record part of what I was telling people. That's also how I frame it in the calls. I'm not doing them anymore, but maybe we can talk about that too. What I started to actually do in my sales calls was tell these people, "Listen, this is even better than being one-on-one with me because you can have me on repeat." And it comes out of the one-on-one sessions. It's not something that is out of the blue that might help you or might not. It's 100% going to help you because if someone's my dream client, they're going to need this kind of value. And they're actually going to have that in their home and work on it on repeat. They don't necessarily need me for that.

Sina: Yes. So for everyone who doesn't know your original offer, what is that offer that we scripted back then in Bali?

Hannah: So actually, it's three pillars where a basic offer now is the recorded course or the recorded setup with also...

Sina: But what is it about? Because people don't know what you do.

Hannah: Okay. Well, I believe that burnout has a specific reason where it's coming from. We have limiting beliefs like, "I need to work hard. I am only worthy if I work a lot." And these limiting beliefs are deeply rooted in our nervous system. So what I do with clients is trauma body work, emotional release work, and nervous system regulation. All of this actually goes to the root cause of these symptoms and not only makes you healthy long term. I work a lot with busy moms who have their own businesses and are completely burned out. They don't have time for themselves. They snap at their kids, which they really don't want to do. Their body is telling them to stop. And I help them with all kinds of knowledge. I gave you a really brief overview, so you can just imagine there's a lot more under the surface. Plus, I give them one-on-one tools. Applicable tools for at home. I give them exercises. I give them meditations. I give them things to regulate their nervous system.

Sina: So for everyone watching, they hear, "Oh, I charge €5K to €18K per client, but it's health coaching," right? And so I get this question a lot. "Who would even pay so much for my health?" But that's why it was so important to look at the dream client. Because for that dream client, their health is, of course, everything. If you don't have it, everyone who has been seriously or chronically sick knows you would pay everything you have.

Hannah: I mean, back then, if my current self could have come to my older version, I would have given away everything just to have that shortcut. It's also about their mindset. My dream client's mindset is, "Oh, I invest in myself regularly. Into my business. Into my health. I have a personal trainer. I have a chef. I have everything." So naturally, I invest in myself. If that is getting me to the goal, of course I'm going to invest in this.

Sina: Yes. So the original offer is that we have now a basic course that people can start with... But you didn't start with that. Your original offer was...

Hannah: The one-on-one.

Sina: Exactly. So we start there. And that's where a lot of people burn out, right? Because if I do one-on-one and I scale one-on-one, then I scale my time.

Hannah: Well, because you're not transitioning. You're staying there. You're stuck with the one-on-ones. And the thing is, at some point, I actually had so many clients I couldn't take in anymore.

Sina: Yes. So that's exactly the point where we got together again, and you told me, "Hannah, we need to change something." Okay. So tell us about that moment. What is it that you learned in the mentoring that made that shift to hit €50K without the burnout?

Hannah: To realize that I can provide the same knowledge without me being present. At first, I was like, "But they want me." And then I realized they're getting me, just in a different format. That's when we started recording part of it. So let's say 50% of my presence is now put into an online course and put into tools. And that gives them another benefit because they can rewatch it again and again and again, which they couldn't with a one-on-one session. Because once the one-on-one session is over, it's gone.

Sina: Yes.

Hannah: I'm gone. And that's a benefit for them. And my benefit is that 50% of me is not necessary anymore. So I can take on 50% more clients if I wanted to, or make the same with 50% fewer clients.

Sina: Make the same income.

Hannah: Exactly.

Sina: Okay. Got it. What we also looked at is, of course, productizing your knowledge. Putting part of it into something pre-recorded. Now, a lot of women, when they do that, are like, "Oh, let me just do a pre- recorded course and sell it to people." The biggest problem they have is, number one, they don't actually know what they want to sell. Because you came to me with that idea as well, right? What was your initial idea going back to before we even spoke?

Hannah: Well, I thought I knew what people needed, right? And I knew their problems. So I was actually recording a course before that. I put together a course about nervous system regulation.

Sina: Okay.

Hannah: And I was wondering why it wasn't selling. That's when we shifted. I started to work one-on-one first because I was actually realizing that my clients tell me what they need. And with some of the things, some of the tools that are now in the program, I never would have believed we needed that because I was like, "That's obvious." The problem for business owners is you're so far ahead of your client that you don't know their problems anymore.

Sina: Yes.

Hannah: So they have to tell you. And then if you're working one-on-one for a certain amount of time and there's also a density to it, so you have regular clients, you'll see a pattern. You'll see what they actually need. And then just put that into, I don't know, a mini exercise. It's going to help them a lot more than a two-hour course that you just recorded.

Sina: Yes. So there are two things about this. One, the big part that we're still laughing about is the nervous system regulation part.

Hannah: I know. It's the nervous system.

Sina: Yes. But no one else does. Do you know what people told me? "I want my energy back."

Hannah: Exactly.

Sina: So now it's all about their energy.

Hannah: That's also my call to action on social media.

Sina: It shifted, right? It shifted from "glow up" to "avoid burnout" to now it's the energy, right? The health plan.

Hannah: It was a health plan before.

Sina: Yeah. So what we always do, and what I tell a lot of women, is you know what people need. There's still a huge part, like you said, in the program that is nervous system regulation. But it's not what you advertise, right? You sell what they want, and then you give them what they actually need. It's like putting vegetables in your toddler's meal.

Hannah: Exactly. The toddler wants a muffin, and you put vegetables inside the muffin. It's like a zucchini muffin.

Sina: Correct. You sell what they want, and you give them what they need. I remember you said "nervous system regulation," and I said, "We need to get rid of this word." Then we made this something that's really interesting for people to visualize. It's a big circle. You give them what they want, and then you hide in there what they need. That's inside the program. So we went from that, to one-on-one, to making sure that you don't burn out by productizing 50% of your knowledge into the program. Another part of what you just said is what we did. We didn't just look at, "How can I give that information pre-recorded and have 90 hours of content pre-recorded?" We looked at, "How can I give that in different formats?" Because if you ask yourself, what would you like more? Would you like 60 hours of content you can watch? Or would you like video lessons, a habit tracker, pre-recorded meditations you can listen to everywhere, a downloadable morning routine cheat sheet, and a nutrition plan? Obviously, you would take the second. So the format is really, really important. What did we do in terms of avoiding you burning out while creating the program? Because do you remember, you said, "I can just record everything next week." What did I tell you?

Hannah: To do it step by step. To actually see the pattern I was just talking about. And that one thing that would help people the most, just record that one bit, that one video, and that one exercise, for example. So the first thing I recorded was a body scan because people had the problem that they were telling me, "But how do I connect to my body?" Because I was saying, "Hey, we will start to connect to your body first and actually feel like you can understand what it needs." And they were like, "How do I connect to my body?" And I was thinking, "How do I connect to my body?" For me, it was very intentional. Then I recorded this. It's like a ten-minute audio. And I also recorded it as a video because people were like, "How does that look?" So in the beginning, they have one video where they can see, "Okay, this is how it looks." And then they have the audio. They can just download it. Some of my clients are doing it in the morning. Some of them are doing it in the car waiting for their kids to finish school. And that was helping them so much. When I started working with a client and we didn't have our first session yet, I would just give them this audio. They would already give me amazing feedback before they even jumped into the first session, just from this exercise. And this is how I did it step by step. "Okay, I actually don't know what stress is doing to my body." So I'm recording a few lessons on what stress is actually doing to your body. What are the symptoms that are connected to this? And then doing it bit by bit.

Sina: So bit by bit, how long did it take to come to that point where you now charge without you even being there?

Hannah: We met in September. I think around December or January, I started recording it. And it took me like two or three months to actually set this up the way it is now. For example, now I'm working a lot with emotions because emotional regulation has a lot to do with the nervous system. I have a whole chapter about emotions. But then they were like, "What are primary emotions? What are secondary emotions? How can I detect them in the body?" So, for example, I did a workbook on this because I did a poll for them about what they need. And then I have a workbook, but it's very structured. It's not too long.

Sina: Let me ask you this. Because a lot of people say if you want a successful business, passive income, and you want to live that lifestyle where you can drink matcha on the beach and your business grows, which you're living now, they say, "Just create a course and sell it." Why do you think this strategy works better?

Hannah: Because it's actually solving their problem. So what we set up here is a premium offer. It's a course that's not really a course. I would say it's a hybrid model between working one-on-one, having client work, and also group calls we're now incorporating. With this setup, it actually gives them the same results. It's not only a cheap course that costs $200, isn't really attracting your dream client, and isn't giving them results.

Sina: Exactly.

Hannah: So I'd rather sell this setup for €8K per client three times a month. Then we'd have to do the math with a $200 course. But it's so many people that you would have to close. With this, you have your dream client. It's not burning you out working with them, and it's actually giving them results.

Sina: Yes. So how much are people paying now without you even being there?

Hannah: €5,000.

Sina: Yeah. €5,000. Wow. So that's more than I would make a month.

Hannah: They actually see me once a month in a group call. But I think last month, we had eight or ten of those closed.

Sina: Wow. Okay. We're getting to this. Just rapid-fire so everyone understands how your lifestyle looks now. How much are people now paying you to work without you or with you?

Hannah: Without me one-on-one, they pay €5K.

Sina: Without?

Hannah: Yes.

Sina: And with you?

Hannah: With me, they're paying at least €8K.

Sina: What's the highest?

Hannah: The highest is €18K.

Sina: Okay. Are you spending time now also selling your program?

Hannah: I don't.

Sina: Okay. So what was the biggest shift between before and after? What are you spending your time on now?

Hannah: Obviously, sales was burning me out because I don't like it. If you're into sales, do it. But if you don't, get setters and closers. So setting that up is working for me while we're recording this.

Sina: So you're making money at the moment while we're...

Hannah: Making money while...

Sina: Exactly. They're having sales calls while I'm in this podcast interview. So we've gotten the mindset shift. We've gotten the offer shift. The strategy shift is to start building your team now. Give us a little bit of the results. How much did you make last month?

Hannah: So last month was actually my best month yet. And I felt like I was working the least. And I made €70,000.

Sina: Wow. How much did you make? Drum roll, please. Wait. Since we first met in Dubai...

Hannah: Together with my business, we made over €400,000.

Sina: Wow. In a year.

Hannah: Wow. And I think with my previous job, I would have done like €40K.

Sina: That's a funny thing, right? Now you're used to those numbers.

Hannah: Yeah.

Sina: Me too. The yearly becomes the monthly. And you just sent me a message the other day. I want you to read that message. Do you remember the message you sent me with the €15K?

Hannah: Yeah. A year ago, I made €15K in a week. And I sent you this message when we actually made €15K in a day because my sales team closed three of the €5K offer. So technically, I made €15K in one day, and I'm not even going to be present for this.

Sina: The next step is to make the yearly that you just made in the last year...

Hannah: A month.

Sina: Yeah.

Hannah: Well, I want to say something really important at this point. It sounds so glamorous. I think if you really want to go this path, be willing to go through all the steps. Because now it is glamorous. I do go to Pilates every morning. I do drink my matcha and listen to my podcast. All of that before I even talk to a single person because my morning is holy. And I was envisioning this when I was working on the ward at 7:00 a.m. and an attending was shouting at me. That's when I envisioned having that life one day where I would talk to no one before 10:00 a.m. And now I have this. But it also requires you to go through these steps, to be willing to put in the effort. It doesn't mean you have to burn out. You can do it the feminine way. You can have fun while you're doing it and reinvent yourself. But also be willing to work those one-on-ones, to go through those steps, because it requires this form of growth to turn into that person.

Sina: So last question. What is the biggest game changer, the biggest tip you would give someone who's thinking of going the same route, doing the mentoring, and thinking, "I don't know if this is the right fit for me"? What would you tell them?

Hannah: I actually have to talk about the emotion of fear because I feel like a lot of us are scared. Fear used to be the emotion showing us that something is dangerous. If we had to run away from the tiger, we had to be scared, right? But today, fear is showing us something is unknown and something is new. I used to tell my clients, and we also work a lot with emotions, I'm scared every single day. I recorded for a new project today. I recorded English content for the very first time. And I was scared coming here. I was nervous. "Can I do it? Can I make it? Can I do that alone? What is going to happen?" The thing is, do it anyway. Do it scared because it's just your nervous system telling you, "Oh, this is unknown. This is new." If you think, "Oh, is this for me?" that's just a voice in your head from your identity talking because it wants to hold you in the comfort zone. It is for you, girl. Because if that dream is placed in your head and your heart, it's placed there for a reason. And I can only say the fear won't go away. The uncertainty won't go away. You won't wake up one day and be like, "Oh, I'm ready now. I feel ready. Everything's set up now. I can start." That's not going to happen. You have to make the decision. Then, on the way, it's going to get easier because you have to train that muscle.

Sina: And why do you think the feminine business is the only way that you would go that route?

Hannah: Because we are different. I see that in medicine as well. All of the medications are tested on men. No wonder they're working differently on women. So we are different. We're working on a 28-day cycle, not a 24-hour cycle. And I just felt like I had done it the masculine way before. The more I work, the more I put out, the more I offer, the better it gets. But it got easier when I started doing it the feminine way.

Sina: Thank you so much for joining. I think we could speak another hour.

Hannah: Yeah, definitely.

Sina: But thank you so much for sharing. And if you want to also learn the feminine way to business, then there's a link below to apply for the program. The same exact steps that Hannah went through to come here today. And all of Hannah's links are also linked below. She has now an English account, so go follow her there. And if you haven't yet, please make sure that you subscribe to this channel. I see a lot of comments below, "I didn't know that I'm not subscribed yet." Well, do that now. That's your reminder. And I'll see you next time. Thank you so much. Additional Clip

Sina: For one part, let's just look at this achievement. How much did you have when you first joined?

Hannah: Last year, I had 50,000.

Sina: Okay. And now, because we had a character development...

Hannah: Yeah. I made more than 20,000 followers last month.

Sina: Wow.

Hannah: And now we're actually reaching four and a half million.

Sina: Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. What is the number one thing that helped you to get there that you learned in the program?

Hannah: Being myself. It's a combination of telling my story and telling my truth.

Farah: I started offering free advice, helping other moms. Then that mom guilt came up. What am I getting in return?

Sina: Then you joined Get Paid. How much did you do?

Farah: $10K US dollars.

Sina: If information is free, the real question is: why would anyone pay you for it? We're going to talk about how you can hit consistent $10K months literally being who you are.

Farah: Autism was not new to me. I have a brother who's on the spectrum. So with my first child, I could see all the signs.

Sina: When was that point where you said, "I want to share that journey online"?

Farah: I started off like any mom would.

Sina: Schools in Dubai are not cheap.

Farah: Neither is therapy. That's what started the homeschooling journey. I would find myself spending a lot of time away from my kids helping other moms.

Sina: You created a course, you priced it super low so people could afford it, and then the DMs came asking for more free advice.

Farah: Some people would send me messages saying, "You should do this for the love of Allah." I did battle with depression.

Sina: How did that feel to you when you started to monetize?

Farah: I got my self-respect back.

Sina: Wow. From March, $200 a month...

Farah: I started off by charging...

Sina: She didn't tell me this. Oh my God. To November...

Farah: I remember speaking to you and thinking that you were crazy for giving me those prices.

Sina: The big difference between a masculine way of doing business versus the feminine way...

Farah: Oh my God. I made my first $2,000-plus sale while I was on vacation. Now I'm able to do that without burning myself out.

Sina: So in terms of content now, let's look at the before you joined the Garden and then after. Oh God. Let's look at that one. The after.

Farah: That hit 3.6 million views.

Sina: How is your life different now?

Farah: I wasn't expecting this at all. You will not compromise on your dreams. You will not compromise on what you want for your kids. Sorry.

Sina: You're making me cry. From trying to be the teacher and seeing all those people asking for free advice, we're going to hit consistent $10K months literally just being who you are.

Farah: So I think the biggest transformation for me is...

Sina: Before we start, if you haven't yet, make sure you subscribe to this YouTube channel because we're always uploading more interesting interviews with women who are getting paid to be themselves. And if you want to hear more about Garden Mentoring, whether it's level one, Become Known, level two, Get Paid, or level three, Scale to your seven-figure personal brand, then make sure you click the link below, and I'll see you there. We're living in a time where information is free. ChatGPT is literally everyone's best friend, and everyone thinks they have to be an expert and share value online to build a successful online business. But if information is free, the real question is: why would anyone pay you for it? You see people casually hitting $10Ks, $20Ks, $30Ks months, and you're saying to yourself, "How?" Because you've been doing what everyone told you. You created a course. You priced it super low so people can afford it. Then the DMs come asking you for more free advice. Or, "Do you have anything cheaper?" And you're asking yourself, "How on earth am I going to build an online business with even lower prices?" It just doesn't make sense. So you're thinking, "Maybe I just need to go more viral. Maybe I just need to give more content. Maybe I just need to be better at what I do. Get more certificates to prove to people that I'm the expert." Listen. If you've been trying all those things and it hasn't been working, this episode is for you. Because as women, the only thing we want is to be who we are and get paid for it. And so many women out there are able to do that. Today, we have a woman with us who has made the shift from trying to be the teacher and seeing all those people asking for free advice to becoming a woman with real opinions. And today, we're going to talk about how you can hit consistent $10K months literally just being who you are. Welcome, Farah.

Farah: Hi, Sina.

Sina: Thank you for being here. It's so nice to see you for the first time in person.

Farah: The feeling's mutual. It's great to be here.

Sina: Although we're literally not living very far from each other.

Farah: I know. I know. It's great to be here. I'm excited.

Sina: My kids are out for a walk. Your kids are still sleeping, is that right? You have four?

Farah: Yes. I've got four kids.

Sina: Okay. What are the ages?

Farah: Starting from 17 all the way down to 11.

Sina: And can you tell us a little bit more? Three boys, one girl?

Farah: Three boys and a girl, yes.

Sina: Can you tell us a little bit more about your role as a mom? For people who don't know what it's like to be an autism mom, give us a bit of the backstory.

Farah: Autism was not new to me because I have a brother who's on the spectrum. So with my first child, I could see all the signs. Nobody else could. I took him to a pediatrician and she literally told me outright, "It's in your head." And I was like, "Good Lord, I can see it."

Sina: Yes.

Farah: I think it's a tough journey when your first child is diagnosed. And the child that you spent about two years trying to conceive was my first planned child, right? When there's a problem with the child, you go into these mixed emotions. Should I grieve? Should I fix it? Your whole world...

Sina: Turns upside down. Especially at first because you're so fresh. Everything is new.

Farah: Yeah. In your head, he's already getting married, right? Your first child. And to be honest, my second, third, and fourth were all unplanned.

Sina: Wow.

Farah: All the planning went into the first, and he turned out to be autistic. So the journey was always about him. Even though I became a mother to three more kids. And I have to say, I did battle with depression. I do feel like I think I've overcome that now, Alhamdulillah. But I think they kind of grew up by themselves, seeing their mom working around herself, her own emotions, not being able to figure it out. So yeah, my initial journey with them has been that, to be honest.

Sina: And you homeschooled all your kids?

Farah: Yes. And then I went on to homeschool them.

Sina: Was that also because of the diagnosis?

Farah: Absolutely. I started off like any mom would. I put him in a mainstream school, poured in a lot of money.

Sina: Yeah. Schools in Dubai are not cheap.

Farah: Neither is therapy. We had a therapist on our visa. We called them in. We trained. I'm telling you, we did the works. And four years into mainstream school, we're like, nothing is changing. We're doing all the work. I'm pouring in all the money, and all he's getting is literally a physical space. I'm like, that's really expensive. The amount that I'm paying, the math is not mathing here. So I pulled him out. And my husband made the decision that if he was going to be homeschooled, he didn't want him to see his siblings go to school while he was studying at home. So we made a system at home that catered to all four of them. I'm not going to have one child sitting at home watching his siblings go to school. That's what started the homeschooling journey. As much as I was like, "I'm not the expert. I don't know how to teach." That evolution for me is, I think, why I'm sitting here today.

Sina: When was that point where you said, "I want to start sharing that journey online with other moms"?

Farah: The homeschooling journey?

Sina: Yes.

Farah: I think while I was homeschooling. I started enjoying it. I really started enjoying it. I started romanticizing everything about it. We would learn on the go. We moved to Malaysia.

Sina: I didn't know that. Oh my God.

Farah: We were there for about six years.

Sina: In KL?

Farah: We were about 20 minutes away from KL. We didn't want to be in the city.

Sina: I'm shocked right now because we have that in common. My husband and I met in Malaysia.

Farah: You met in Malaysia?

Sina: Oh my God. I lived there for a long time. I left Germany when I was 20, and then we met there. It's such a beautiful place.

Farah: It'll hold a special place in your heart, I'm sure, because something so important happened there. Similarly for me, my four kids were practically raised there. Six years of their childhood. That's a significant amount of time. They grew up there. I took them out of school and homeschooled them. We did forest schooling, beach schooling.

Sina: Something I learned in Malaysia, I was like, "What the hell is that? Who does this?" So tell us what beach schooling is.

Farah: It's like you get to spend the night at someone's house. Someone usually has a summer home or something by the beach. They invite everyone from the homeschooling community. You have to be part of the community first of all. You spend the night there. Then you get up early in the morning to see the organisms and the life around the beach before people come in or before the sun comes up.

Sina: That sounds so beautiful.

Farah: And it absolutely was. My kids got to experience all that. Seeing turtles out in the open, not in a zoo. Being in the jungle. Taking hikes. And learning from, you'd know this, they're called the Orang Asli, right?

Sina: Yes.

Farah: The natives there. Learning from them. It was amazing. And for my son who was on the spectrum, it was amazing for him because he didn't have to conform to a classroom environment. So he thrived. No problem behaviors. No sensory issues. He was in nature. And so I think that was the best decision we made.

Sina: So you were like, "I want to put this out there."

Farah: I want to put this on social media. That this is another way to live life. Everything is not around grades and schools and admissions and the rat race. There is a different way of living and killing it, literally.

Sina: Yeah. And how did people react when you shared that online?

Farah: Oh my God. They thought I'd gone crazy.

Sina: Really?

Farah: Yeah. And that's something I want to warn parents about. A lot of people will think that because that's a creative way of living. You're living outside of the box. You're thinking and looking at things differently. A lot of people won't understand that, and they might ridicule you. So you sit in a gathering where you're talking to people and they look at you like, "Oh, you couldn't afford schooling. That's why you're doing this." While it was, I wouldn't say more expensive, it was definitely a more wholesome way of living. But giving my children all those experiences was not cheap.

Sina: Yes.

Farah: We traveled a lot to remote places in Malaysia. That wasn't cheap. But that's not a discussion you want to get into. It boils down to, "You were too cheap to put your kids in school, and that's why you chose that route."

Sina: Yeah. It's interesting because in Germany, you would never say that because school is free in Germany.

Farah: Yeah.

Sina: But in Germany, for example, you're not allowed to homeschool your kids.

Farah: Yes.

Sina: So for me, this is on a totally different level. I keep asking my husband because I want to homeschool the kids. Especially after they can read, take them out of school. Mine are very, very young, but for me, that sounds like the dream.

Farah: I got this inspiration from a mom over there. She was a European mom in the community. And she was like, "All I do is we hit the beach and I take books, and they're reading by the beach. That's it." They just need to know how to read and do math in their primary years. I'm like, that's true.

Sina: Yeah. That is true life.

Farah: Read, do math, and experience life. You meet such amazing people in the community.

Sina: Yeah. It's beautiful to hear that because I started my business because I wanted to help women get paid to be themselves. And hearing a little bit about your journey and how you became that person is so inspiring. When was that shift where you said, "You know what? I think I want to build a business around this"?

Farah: That was a long journey because while I was homeschooling, I was also learning to become a special educator. So I was doing diploma courses and certifications while my kids were at home. Whatever I was learning, I was applying to my kids. All four of them, not just my special needs child. And I ran my own center afterwards, just for about a year. I moved to Pakistan after that. I worked in Malaysia as well. And I just felt that I had a lot to offer. I started offering free advice. Nobody would take it, obviously, but they would ask. I would get a lot of DMs, a lot of people asking me a whole lot of questions. Whether they were taking it or not taking it, I would never know. But I would find myself spending a lot of time away from my kids helping other moms. Then that guilt comes up. That mom guilt comes up. So what am I getting in return? What am I giving back to my kids for the time I'm spending away from them? I think that's when I was like, I'm answering the same questions again and again and again. Why not just build a course around it? I've lived this life. It's not something I'm making up. I've lived this life. I've done all the learning and implemented it. I'm answering those same questions every time. Let's make a course around this. Let's make a program around this.

Sina: And how did it go? How much did you price it? How did you go about it? Tell us more.

Farah: You have to remember, I was offering free advice.

Sina: Yes.

Farah: Asking for money was huge for me. I felt wrong, number one, for asking for money. The mom guilt was there, and then feeling wrong for asking for money. I started off by charging between $25 and $50 for one-on-one coaching.

Sina: You did not tell me this. Oh my God.

Farah: I know. And now while I'm saying this out loud, it's coming to me. Wow. Writing that, putting that down on email or WhatsApp, "That'll be $25." I'm saying it now and I'm like, "Oh my God. I did that." Then I realized it wasn't worth it because I still had so much knowledge. When you start teaching people, you realize, "My God, I know so much."

Sina: Yes.

Farah: Working with other kids, actual practical experience. It's not just my children and making this assumption that every kid out there is like my kid. I worked with other people's children and other families. I've had some sort of influence on other people's families when you work so closely with them. Now how do you put a price on that?

Sina: Yes. It's really tough also because we're told that low prices and high value equals a successful business.

Farah: No. And then you have people who send you messages saying, "You should do this for the love of Allah." I mean, does your husband work for the love of Allah? Seriously. This is my time away from my kids. I'm putting in so much effort making teaching plans for you. With all the studies that I've done, I'm making a plan for you. Your transformation plan.

Sina: And you want it as charity.

Farah: And you want it as charity.

Sina: Yes. So how did that feel to you when you started to monetize? And by the way, just as background, I know why she didn't tell me this because I get really mad at my mentees when they have low prices. Not because I'm actually mad at you. I'm shocked because there's so much value.

Farah: I don't want to be judged, so I'm not saying the full story.

Sina: Tell us now. Come on.

Farah: Dish it all out. Oh my God. I remember right after I got in, one of the success managers helped me. I priced my program at $120, then I moved it up to $475. And even when I charged $475, I was offering so many discounts that I never really charged $475. Again, I went through the same thing. I'm putting in so much effort. There's so much content in my program. And the numbers are not making sense. Then one of the success managers was like, "It's okay. We're going to work with your nervous system here. We get it. This is scary for you." From $50, you're asking for $475, and this is tough. And they told me how to put myself out there in a way that was respectful to me. So I started losing respect for myself when I was charging so low and giving so much. They helped me a lot with my mindset. And I think that shift was important. It wasn't about moving the price up. It was about respecting where I was at.

Sina: Yes.

Farah: Meeting me where I was at. They could have easily told me, "Hey, you're charging $50. Take it up to $2,000." You could have done that, but they knew that would break me. So they very slowly moved me up from $475 to $675. And the first time I moved from $475, which I wasn't charging fully, to $675, I had six people buy straight away.

Sina: Wow.

Farah: Without asking for a discount. And then from $675, I spoke to you. And you were like, "Take it up." And I'm like, "This lady's crazy. She doesn't know how my industry works, but okay. I'll just humor her. I'll just let her talk." I got off the call, and I told my success manager that I wasn't being totally honest with Sina because I knew she'd judge me. So I quietly let her do whatever she was doing. Then my success manager was like, "But you are going to do it." I was like, "Oh no. You're not going to help me out here." And she did. She helped me through that journey. And I moved from level one to level two with a completely changed mindset of being okay asking for more money and respecting my time. I got my self-respect back.

Sina: And did anyone buy?

Farah: Sorry?

Sina: Did anyone buy?

Farah: Oh my God. I made my first $2,000-plus sale while I was on vacation.

Sina: Tell us more.

Farah: I remember being hesitant. I'm like, "I'm going to be on vacation. I don't think I should continue being in the mentorship right now because I'm going to be on break. I'm not going to be able to utilize whatever the program has to offer." And I wasn't being pushed. It was like, "Okay, sure. That's fine." Then I went back and thought about it. With everything I've learned in level one, to romanticize your life, that your business should not bring you down, that it has to be part of your life and you have to enjoy it and embrace it. I'm like, if I'm to fully understand and live by that, that would mean it's something I do for fun. It's something that makes me feel good. So why can't I do it while I'm on vacation? We were on vacation for about 16 days. I would get up every morning at seven o'clock while my kids were still asleep and work every day from seven to 8:30 in the morning. I've got pictures from different hotels with beautiful scenery where I'm working. And I'm like, "Oh my God. This is what romanticizing your work looks like." Hotel staff would know me because nobody on vacation is working at 7:00 a.m. I'm the only one there. So I would get a quiet space and they would serve me better. They're like, "Oh, she's the one who's reserved her spot." And they would make sure I had a quiet space to work. I loved that. I loved treating myself and my work with that much respect and importance. And then you attract that respect too into your life.

Sina: And that has really been the big difference between the masculine way of doing business versus the feminine. We want to work hard, but we also want to enjoy while we're working hard on something that we know has a positive impact on someone else. I want to go a little bit back because I feel like we jumped over a lot.

Farah: We sure did.

Sina: Tell us about that moment where you said you lost self-respect. What was that moment where you said, "I need to change something," before you even met me?

Farah: Like I said, I was offering everything for free because I felt that was the right thing to do. I started off that way. But then I felt that when I was putting myself out there, I assumed another mom sitting across from me was a mom that I was a couple of years ago. So I was always eager to help. Eager to give, give, give. And in that, I realized mothers would either show up or not show up. And when people don't show up, you're like, "But I'm here giving you everything I've accumulated and learned over the years." When they don't show up, it erodes a bit of your self-respect. It has an impact. And that's what it did to me. That's why when I joined Garden Mentoring, I remember telling one of the success managers, "I'm building this program, and I know I'll need help after I'm done making this program. I want help with putting myself out there because I know that's where I'm struggling right now." The mindset, the self-respect, that's what's more important to me than the actual program, my course.

Sina: Yes.

Farah: I have no doubt about what I've put in it. I know it's amazing. But it's about how I'm showing up because it'll reflect on the people I attract.

Sina: You attract what you reflect.

Farah: Absolutely. So if I'm an insecure mom, if I'm a mom who has doubts about myself, those are the kinds of moms I'm going to attract into my program.

Sina: And you did before.

Farah: And I did. I still do sometimes. But then I take it as a task. No, I'm going to change that. Because today, I'm living this life as an empowered mom, as an autism mom who's not a victim. So if you're a mom who stumbled into my program and you have self-doubt, we're going to work on that. We're going to change that. And I have to live it to encourage you to change it.

Sina: And the lowest vibration you can be on is really guilt. I had an acupuncture session the other day, and my therapist said, "How is work? How is the business? How are the babies?" I'm like, "Well, lots of business, lots of babies." And she's like, "You know what? The lowest vibration you can be on is guilt." So when you're at work, you're at work. When you're with the kids, you're with the kids. But then when you're at work and you're underpaid and you feel like you give so much, at that time the guilt was probably ten times more because you're like, "I'm leaving my kids for this." So when was that point where you said, "I want to stop chasing. I want to start attracting. I want to build my business this way"? Why didn't you go to any other viral guru? What attracted you to the Garden?

Farah: I think I loved the whole idea of, "You attract. You don't chase." And I know that's what I was doing with $50. I was chasing with $50. And I was like, no. To attract, I have to live that life. And what does that life look like? I'm still working on it. You're always improving. There's always room for that. But now, exactly what you just said, the guilt thing. I'm like, what do I feel guilty about? Okay, I'm not working as much with my children as I used to when I was homeschooling them because now I have a business. But that's something I learned in the program as well, how you schedule and how you prioritize. How do you structure your day so that you give 100% to whatever you're doing? Whether it's answering emails, whether it's being with your kids, or doing anything that has to do with your life. What I love about Garden Mentoring is that it doesn't ignore the other roles that you play because that's where mom guilt comes from. It's like, no, that is part of you. That's what makes you you. And if you want to get paid for being you, then you have to live that in the best authentic way possible. And that shows in your content. I didn't struggle after that because I dedicated time. "This is my time with my kids." Whether I get customers, clients, content, it doesn't matter. This is the time I block with my kids, and I'm going to give them 100%. The guilt went. And the two hours you spend with your kids gives you so many ideas for content. Just those two hours where you switch off from work and you're with whatever role you're fulfilling in that time. Date nights with my husband increased. My husband got more interested in my work, and he started helping me. I attracted that. Before, he would just listen to me. But now he's seeing results, and he's like, "Is there anything I can help with?" And he's a technical guy. He's like, "Let me help." Now he helps me with my shoots, with my sound quality, with so many things. So you attract the right kind of people into your life when you live with that authenticity.

Sina: Yes. And that's truly why I created Garden Mentoring. One of the reasons that I attracted my husband was also the garden. If you don't catch butterflies, you build a garden and let them come to you. People always ask me, "How do you find a husband who works with you and is interested in your business?" I'm like, I pitched my husband my business. That's how we...

Farah: Exactly.

Sina: And then we were friends for years and only then got married. So it's really interesting how that attract-not-chase idea applies to relationships. It applies to the way you go about your everyday life. But I also wanted it to apply to someone's business. And so it's so beautiful to see that really put into action. Tell us a little bit more specifically about some of your transformation. I'm interested in the transformation between how you posted before versus how you posted after. What did you change? What wasn't working that we had to change?

Farah: I used to keep making content difficult. And I think when that switch happened, we had so many of those weekly calls around making content. That really helped. Because there are times when you're going through a slump. And you have the group coaching sessions where people are sharing their wins and their learnings. I wouldn't call anything negative because it's always feedback. Even if something doesn't work, you learn so much from that. But more than just learning how to make content, it's about taking the fear out of making content. The group coaching sessions took that fear out. Just get inspiration from your everyday life. And I'm like, "How does one do that?" Then when I would spend those two hours with my children, I'm like, that's content. Me spending time with my husband, that's content. What am I just sitting here randomly thinking? That's content. So I had this whole thing about, "Oh my God, it has to be a specific way." You taught us to talk as if the person sitting in front of you is a friend. That's how that energy can come through. If it's so scripted, that shows on camera too. And authenticity in today's day and age, like you rightly said, ChatGPT is everywhere. ChatGPT can only take you so far. It can help you organize your thoughts, but the thoughts have to be yours. The prompt has to be yours. It'll only give you what you put in. So to be able to put the right things in, you have to live and experience those things. In terms of content now, for the past month, I've been putting content out every single day. And this is me going from once a week or twice a week...

Sina: Okay.

Farah: To every day having content out there. And just last month, this was big, my success manager convinced me to book a podcast room. She ran through all the scripts with me. We organized everything, went out there, and it went viral.

Sina: I actually want to look at this. Let's look at a before, before you joined the Garden, and then after. I think it's really beautiful for people to see the differences. I wonder if you even remember this. Let's look at the before, and we're going to play it as well.

Farah: Oh my God.

Sina: Do you remember this?

Farah: Oh my God, no.

Sina: "Five things every autism mom needs to hear." Then we have: "Your best is enough." "It's okay to take a break." "Self-care isn't selfish." "You're not just an autism mom." "It's okay not to have all the answers."

Farah: Oh God. That looks like ChatGPT. Now that I'm hearing it, it's not that I used it, but when I hear it now, I'm like, "Oh my God. Okay."

Sina: But you know what? If you scroll through anyone's content, at some point they probably have, "My five tips," "My three things you need to know." It's because we've been told that's how you make money. You're an expert. You give value, value, value. And that's how people are going to pay you. But this is the kind of content that attracted people who asked, "Why don't you just do this for free?"

Farah: And just to add over here, I had bought a program to teach me how to get sales.

Sina: Oh, okay.

Farah: And this is a result of that.

Sina: Wow. To know that someone is charging for that. But honestly, this is literally why I started sharing online how to do this instead. That's what we've been hearing, right? Everyone just tells you, "Be the expert."

Farah: Yeah. Talk like an expert.

Sina: Talk like an expert, and no one cares. I think this has absolutely no comments. And then let's look at the one from the after. I think I saw the video you're referring to this morning. Is it this one?

Farah: The one, "I hate inclusion"? Oh my God. Okay.

Sina: That is amazing. I love it. So here's the difference between trying to be a teacher, what we just saw, versus being a woman with an opinion. Let's watch this video. "I hate the word inclusion. And I know that sounds harsh, but stay with me. I put my child through months of therapies, not because he needed it for his growth, but because the world expects our children to never inconvenience anyone. The moment they enter a classroom, society demands them..."

Farah: "...to fit into a box. A box that..."

Sina: "...was never built for them. So while other kids are doing sports, music, art, my child is doing boring things like sitting in a closed room and learning how to sit still, learning how to take up less space." Wow.

Farah: You know, that brings tears because that was an actual opinion. That was not a ChatGPT prompt. That was lived experience. It's emotional now when I hear it. I got a lot of DMs on that. A lot of DMs. A lot of moms who booked calls just wanted to cry. They're like, "That really hit a nerve, and we have never said it out loud because we feared backlash." Because just for our kids to be accepted in a mainstream school is so huge. We don't want to rock the boat. So we don't want to say anything. And they were just so grateful that I said it.

Sina: And your story that you shared with us in the beginning is what you just said here.

Farah: Yeah.

Sina: And it's not that you just tell your story. You have some videos as well telling your story. But this is really the opinion that, like you said, so many are afraid to say out loud.

Farah: Like it or leave it. And that's what I learned in Garden Mentoring. It's you, and you don't have to be apologetic for being you. These are things you actually experienced. You're not making it up. So I was able to say it with that confidence.

Sina: 360 comments, 468 reposts. I don't even have the other data. Probably a lot of shares.

Farah: The one that I did while I was on holiday, by the way, that hit 3.6 million views.

Sina: Wait, was that this one?

Farah: This one, yes. Oh my God. The amount of comments I got on that.

Sina: 1,086 comments. Wow.

Farah: And it's still going strong.

Sina: It's still growing. So a couple of things here. What we really did with you is stop giving value randomly. No "three tips." No trends. No dancing on TikTok. That's already something we know.

Farah: I'd like to add to that, by the way. One of the main things I learned is that nobody wants a teacher. I think that was the most important thing I learned because that's what I was doing. Everything I learned, I was putting it out there. Everything I learned. And I'm like, "My God. That is so boring." That's not what a mom wants to hear. A mom wants to hear another mom say what worked for her. What worked in her house with all the heavy baggage she carries in terms of relationships, work, career, all of that, and autism. How did she make that work? That's what they really want to hear from you. Otherwise, there's always another special educator they can learn from. Why would they come to me?

Sina: And that's really the difference. A lot of people think people want information in order to buy, but they want transformation. So that's what we did with your content. We turned it from information to transformation. We went from giving value to sharing your opinions and these thoughts. And I feel like a lot of people just need to sit down and think, "What are the thoughts I'm afraid to say out loud?" I want to talk a little bit about backlash as well, the fear of backlash, the fear of hate online. But information to transformation is also what we did with your offer. It was a lot of information. "Here's everything that I know. Buy it for $50." Versus: "This is the transformation I went through as a mom of an autistic child, and here is why that would work for you." So I want to hear from that transformation part. Why do you feel like that change from information to transformation was so powerful, both in your story and your offer?

Farah: I think I became more mindful in terms of what I was putting out there. Not only in terms of content, but also in my program. What am I putting out there? So like you rightly said, from just putting information out to transformation. I now get messages from my students, and not only students, anyone who's even following me, saying, "You're an inspiration." And I think a lot of that I learned from your life by closely following you. Because that's the first thing you ask when someone joins the mentoring: "What do you want to be known for?" I'm like, "I want to be known as an autism mom who was not scared to live life differently." So the transformation, I have to live that transformation, number one. And number two, how do I want to be remembered by people? What is the word that I want people to remember me by? And that word came to my mind, and I wrote this in my journal. It's interesting that I get these messages now saying exactly what I wrote in the journal.

Sina: Okay.

Farah: It was like a vision board thing. It's one of the things you told us to do. Future you. The vision board. How do you want people to think about you? I'm like, the word is inspiration. I want them to look at me and get inspired. I don't want them to come to my page, consume my content, and feel saddened. Like an autism mom who's having one good day stumbles upon my page and thinks, "Oh my God, now this is the life I should be living," and goes back to zero. I don't want that.

Sina: But that happens when you say, "Here's how you do it. I have it all figured out. Here's how you do it," instead of, "This is what I went through."

Farah: Yeah. And I want to be relatable that way because it's true. I went through everything any mom can throw at me.

Sina: Yes.

Farah: I went through that. And if I can today live this life, have this transformation, I want to help you get there too.

Sina: Yes. And were you afraid of backlash when it came to strong opinions like this video, "I hate the word inclusion"?

Farah: I did get backlash on that. But the most backlash I got was on the one that did really well, the one that went up to 3.6 million. I got a lot of backlash for that. But that's something I was mentored on by my success manager in Garden Mentoring. Nobody kicks a dead dog. Literally. And they're like, "Backlash means you're being noticed." That means you're triggering someone. And you're not for everyone. And that's okay. You have to be okay with that. If you want to stand out, if you want to inspire, you have to be okay with the baggage that'll come with it.

Sina: Yes.

Farah: And that's why I think that was the biggest shift. The mindset shift. Now when I see backlash or when I get a mean comment, I just smile. I'm able to say, "Do I really want to engage with this and bring down my energy?" No. I know what I'm doing, and I'm being respectful about it. It's okay for you not to agree. But if you're coming onto a platform to ridicule me, to bring me down, then that's on you. That's something you need to work on. I don't have time to waste with you.

Sina: A lot of this journey has to do with mindset and just understanding. Also, when you get a negative comment, a lot of times our mind is on the negative comment, but 99% of the comments are good and you focus on the 1%. So the hate or the backlash or the virality, that didn't really influence your income, right? These videos attracted more of the right people?

Farah: The more negative comments you get, the more viral the video gets. This is something I've learned. So if somebody hasn't put a negative comment in there, you're like, "It's not going to go viral." Not that I would do it for those reasons, but it's just an observation. It's something I've noticed. But income, no. I'm like, as long as I'm living the life that I'm telling people they can live too, I have nothing to feel guilty about.

Sina: But let's talk about it because your videos before attracted the wrong type of people, right? "Can I get free advice?"

Farah: Yeah.

Sina: What happened when you shifted the content? What types of people came to you?

Farah: Moms who were... Okay. This is an interesting shift. And again, something I learned from your program as well. You don't live in a box. So if I'm helping moms with their kids and not offering them that mindset support, it's incomplete support I'm offering. Just giving strategies for the child while ignoring the mom's needs doesn't make sense. And that's something I learned from you. You're more than just one role. And I incorporated that into my program. Okay, a mom has these challenges. Let me help her there too.

Sina: Because it was your transformation.

Farah: Exactly. I'm like, how did I start working differently with my child? By not ignoring my other roles. And that's what I brought to my program. And to answer your question about the kind of moms I got, I got moms who wanted to evolve in every aspect of their life. They felt they were too consumed by autism. They were done living that life and wanted out. Those are the kinds of moms I got. The previous moms were moms who were too worried about the future but unable to take any step in the right direction. Busy procrastinating. So that was a huge shift from procrastinators to go-getters.

Sina: And that's a big difference between people asking for discounts and premium clients. That's the conversation I have with every one of you. Let's target those premium clients. Because here's the big difference. If you have a $200 course, it wasn't even $200, it was $50, but let's just say you have a $200 course. If you attract someone who can afford a $200 course, that's usually a lot of money for them. So they're like, "This course has to change my entire life. And you need to answer my WhatsApp messages at 2:00 a.m. to help me with every single thing that I experience around that." And then you're exhausted and burned out and away from your kids for $200. Whereas if you're attracting a premium client, where $2,000 is still money, but it's a part of what they have in their bank account, their biggest goal is...

Farah: Transformation. And you just reminded me of something when you said that. Even now, with the $2,000 offer I have, which is my best-selling offer, it's so great to have a community in Garden Mentoring where we run ideas by members in the community. They see my offer and they're like, "You're charging $2,000 for that? You're giving so much information and you're only charging that?" Even they're telling me this now. I don't need a success manager to tell me. I have mentees telling me, "What are you doing, lady?"

Sina: That's good to hear. For someone who's charging... Your transformation and what you can give is worth so much. Honestly, look at yourself. How much would you be paying for that transformation you went through?

Farah: Oh, yes. And all in one place. Because for me, it took years. Different mentors, different teachers, everything. And I'm giving it to you in one space. I'm giving all of that to you in one space. Again, something I learned from Garden Mentoring is that it's not just about becoming a businesswoman. It's about you as a person evolving. And that's what I'm still working on. I'm getting better at it every month, putting new content and a lot of information out there every time. So it may not be $2,000 anymore, for sure.

Sina: Yeah. We're moving up. You started in level one, Become Known, which was mostly about your content and your story. You shared that. We just saw the transformation you made there. Then you joined level two, Get Paid, where we developed your premium offer. And we really turned that transformation into an offer that people could buy. And your tiers are...

Farah: From $997 all the way to $4,500.

Sina: Okay. And how many clients do you usually have from this offer?

Farah: This is important to give context to. Now I tell myself that I think I should just be making four clients a month with my medium offer, and that should be good enough.

Sina: Just a measly $8K a month.

Farah: Yeah. And now I'm able to do that without burning myself out. Whereas I was charging $120, $445, and making six sales, and I'm like, this is still...

Sina: And you ask yourself, at this price point, if I'm already exhausted at this stage and I'm only making this much money, $500 a month, how exhausted am I going to be if I want to get to $10K?

Farah: Yeah. And this is me comfortably getting there, by the way. I haven't even put myself fully out there, which I'm excited to get to now. Because I'm like, I think I'm ready to get my feet wet. I started living intentionally. And when I say intentionally, I mean respecting myself, respecting my health, respecting my time. My time is not just kids and the mundane jobs that we women are expected to fit into, the roles we're expected to fit into. I started giving myself things that are important to me. Things that make me happy. When I started doing all of that, I saw my kids thrive. That energy spreads. My relationships changed. My kids started thriving. And they probably don't even know it on some unconscious level, but they started becoming mini versions of me. I could see them pursue hobbies that I know they wouldn't have. Them making goals for themselves. Because they're seeing their mom do it. Their mom is sitting and making goals and making vision boards for herself. And I see them say, "We want to do this with our life."

Sina: Wow.

Farah: It trickles through. And I'm like, how do you put a price on something like this? That's what the success managers were telling me. "Live the life you want to give your dream client. You have to live it first. You have to be authentic. Because if you're not living that life, it'll show." So focus on that. Everything else will come. And it did. It absolutely did. I can get on a call and rightly tell a mom, "Snap out of it." It has happened. Whatever has happened, I'm here. Let's work through this. We're going to get to that life. I can only say that if I'm doing that to myself and if I'm giving myself that self- talk. I can only then help another mom. So I think the biggest transformation for me is that I'm open to living big. Why should I compromise? Why should it be either this or this? Why can't it be both? And I'm seeing it, and I'm receiving. And I think that's what's overwhelming me. Last year at this time, I really didn't think, Sina, that I would be doing what I'm doing right now. No way. Absolutely no way. So now I'm sitting and saying, "I'm going to travel with my kids." I go out with my daughter. What do you want to have? My son, he sings. My 17-year-old who's on the spectrum. There's so much of myself that I've put into him. And now I'm like, what else does he need? How can I be there for him in more ways than just putting him in another therapy? I'm done with just therapy, therapy, putting him from one therapy center to another therapy center. How can I give him more of myself? Without putting a price on it, without money necessarily. So yeah, I think as a person, I've just become very chilled out. And I'm like, I'm going to flow with life. I'm going to enjoy every aspect of it. And what's meant for me will come to me. Be at peace with that. People say, "What's meant for you will come," but they don't believe it. I think I've come to peace with that. I won't lose sleep over it anymore.

Sina: You're making me emotional.

Farah: Because I wasn't expecting this at all. I don't know where that came from.

Sina: The reason why you're emotional is why I'm emotional. Because I can see you live that life, and it was my purpose to help women get there.

Farah: Yeah. And you did, Sina. You did. Thank you so much for sharing. And it's not easy to share. It's not easy. But I tell myself, even if one family's life could change because of what I came out and shared, that's a life well lived for me. One family. If I can make that change for them. So I love it. I love it when I get DMs saying, "You're my inspiration. You're my teacher." I love it. And I pray so much for them. Like you said, your clients are part of your vision board. What transformations do you want for them? So I do write, "I want this for this client of mine. I want this client to have this life." To be able to pray for people who are on another part of the globe who you may never meet, I don't know how to describe it.

Sina: And we're meeting for the first time today.

Farah: Oh yeah. I told her, "It's a fan moment for me." And that was also on my vision board.

Sina: Oh, that's what you mean.

Farah: Yeah. For next year. In 2026, I wanted to be sitting across from you. I wanted to be at level three. And I'm like, I'm already there.

Sina: You're there. You moved on to level three.

Farah: Oh, that's... I never thought I'd be here this year, doing all the things I've done in this whole journey. I've been with you for one year. No, I started in March. That's not even a year.

Sina: That's not even a year.

Farah: It feels like forever.

Sina: And what you're saying really resonates with me because I can see a lot of moms who think they need to choose. They need to make themselves smaller so they have time for the kids. And it's so beautiful to see you live your life because your kids will look at you and they'll understand. You don't have to teach them to pursue their dreams. You can show them instead.

Farah: And that's the way kids, or anyone, learns. They learn through watching, not by what you...

Sina: They don't listen to what you say. They listen to what you do.

Farah: Yes.

Sina: They just follow you. They copy you.

Farah: They copy your language, your body language, everything.

Sina: And it's so beautiful. Because when I had my first, I had him in my arms. At that time, I was still in a nine-to-five. And I was like, I cannot go back to work and leave my baby.

Farah: Oh my God. That's tough.

Sina: A three-month-old. I will not be doing that. And from that moment on, I said to myself, I will make this work. And I will make it work for other moms. Because I can see other moms having to leave the house, having to leave their baby at home or in daycare, seeing them only at night. And I just don't want any mom to feel like they have to choose. I want them to feel like you can live your life, you can interact with the things that you can, and your kids can watch you do it and...

Farah: And grow with you. Another version of you, doing bigger things. But they have to get that strength from you by seeing you.

Sina: Yeah. And you're evolving in front of their eyes. That's the beautiful part. Okay. So tell us about your best-performing month. Tell us about the last couple of months. How much did you do? Just so people can have a bit of an understanding. How much are you actually making? We calculated earlier.

Farah: We did. This is me going from barely getting $200 a month. And I'd be like, "Well, then I'm fine. I'm okay with this." I remember the impostor syndrome. "I shouldn't be asking for money." All of that. To now getting $10K US dollars. $10K. That's what I did last month. So in less than a year of me being with...

Sina: From March, $200 a month to November, $10K.

Farah: $10K. Yes.

Sina: And now we're in level three. So what's the next step for next year? What do you want to make consistently every month?

Farah: Consistently, I'm looking at $30K-plus.

Sina: Nice.

Farah: And I'm not scared to put that out there. I was in level two. I'll be very honest. Remember when I thought you were crazy? That was the time.

Sina: Everyone thinks that.

Farah: Yeah. And that was the time.

Sina: But two weeks later?

Farah: Exactly. And then consistently since then, since August, being able to do that. And now I'm like, every time they've told me to do certain things, I've done it. I've seen results. Why am I holding back?

Sina: What made you say back then, "Okay, I want to invest that into myself"? Because as women, I believe we're not really taught to invest in ourselves. We buy our kids the toys and the therapy and the activities, but we don't really invest in ourselves. What made that shift for you?

Farah: Like I said, I was tired of answering the same questions. Then my husband encouraged me at that time. He was like, "Why don't you just make a course around this?" I was very reluctant, and I still did it. I finished building my program. And that's when I got in touch with one of the mentors. I'm like, "I think I'm ready to sell this now." And even when I was ready to sell this, I wasn't offering it at the price I should have. But to answer what made me think I should get into this now: I was tired of answering those same questions. If I'm learning something, what am I learning it for? Is it only for my son? How am I increasing myself in knowledge? And then I would watch you on social media saying, "Get paid to be you." I loved learning. I love studying. I love learning new ways to help my child. So why not get paid to do that? And I spent that year not only selling but continuing my studies as well and using everything I was studying to help the mothers I was working with. So it just helped me live more purposefully. There were so many whys. "Why do you want to do this?" In the program, we're made to reflect. There's a lot of self-reflection. Why do you want to do this? It has to mean something to you. When you answer all those whys, there's more clarity in what you want from your life. And you're like, "I want more. I want more." And it goes on and on. And I don't feel guilty about it anymore like I did before I started.

Sina: What do you feel would help women make that shift themselves? To say, "Okay, I want to invest in myself and actually make this business work." What would you tell them that would take that guilt away?

Farah: I would say it would make a huge difference in you as a person. Number one, it is a leap of faith. I'm not going to take that away from it. But it also gives you more clarity with how you want to live your life. When you're running your own business, you have to put yourself out there. You have to change as a person. And as a result, everything around you changes. And it's something I asked myself when I was entering this. There are two paths. Either I do this or I don't do this. What happens if I don't? And what happens if I do? And I could only see a lot of pros. I could see the cons as well. But I'm like, what happens if I flip the switch? When I flip the switch, I'm like, "Oh my God. There's a potentially really big life waiting for me." And if I don't, am I okay with living the way I'm living right now? No. I'm not. I'll be honest. I'm not. I want more. So I don't want to be on my deathbed like, "What if?" What if I did this? What if I didn't do this? So for me, I would tell another mom: If you're happy and content with where you are right now, then stay there. But if you want more from your life, then you have to take those difficult steps where you come out of your comfort zone and be okay with it. That's a new you. That's a new way of living. Not surviving. That's a new way of living. And that takes effort just like anything else does. It takes effort and it takes time. And you have to be okay with that.

Sina: Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing. It was beautiful to have you on and hear a little bit more about your story. And I'm hopeful that next time we're going to do a follow-up podcast and see how you're doing.

Farah: I can't wait for that. I'll definitely be here for that. I'm pretty confident I will be.

Sina: And if you're interested to learn more about Garden Mentoring, there's a link below where you can apply. Make sure that you subscribe to this channel because a lot of you are commenting below that you don't really see notifications. So subscribe to the channel, click the notification bell, and I'll see you in the next video.

Sina: How much did you make in a month from your clients?

Belkisa: It depends, but I'm at an average of €10K per month.

Sina: That's an average?

Belkisa: Yeah.

Sina: 90% of women give up on their business because they're following the masculine way of doing business.

Belkisa: I dressed like a man. I spoke like a man. I was a man.

Sina: We lock ourselves in a dark room, eat our chicken every day, and just work. But for women, the masculine way leads us to burnout.

Belkisa: I was always in hustling mode - chasing, hustling, to-dos, working 24 hours. And one day, I stood in my office, looked down and thought, "Oh God, I am a man. I lost my femininity."

Sina: And why do you think that was?

Belkisa: The 9-to-5. Women and men are not the same. We have different hormonal cycles.

Sina: The feminine way to business. What is the first thing you said, "I want to work on"?

Belkisa: I'm working night and day, posting three Reels a day, doing everything, and nothing - really nothing - is happening. I was sitting there and raised my hand.

Sina: Yes.

Belkisa: I just started to cry and said, "I can't anymore." I was literally standing in front of the ruins of my life.

Sina: Two weeks later, she hit €2.5K in her business and got two keynote speaking gigs. It was mind-blowing. Tell everyone what happened.

Belkisa: We saw that I had the exact same Reels getting around 600 views on Instagram and half a million to a million views on LinkedIn.

Sina: And I told you, "Belkisa, you have to leave Instagram. LinkedIn is your platform." Stop chasing and start attracting. Because if you want to attract your clients, you need to be where they are, right?

Belkisa: And really, my whole life is changing. It's crazy. I have two little kids. I have time to be a mom, and I have time to be a career woman. This is priceless.

Sina: There's only 1% of women watching this right now who are going to apply this. But the ones who do are going to be successful.

Sina: The biggest lesson for me was that 90% of women give up on their business because they're following the masculine way of doing business. We're trying to prove ourselves, always be confident. Confidence means shaking hands. If we want to be disciplined, we lock ourselves in a dark room, eat our chicken every day, and just work. But for women, the masculine way leads us to burnout. And similarly, in Belkisa's case, Belkisa came to one of our workshops in tears, breaking down, saying, "I don't know what to do anymore. Nothing is working." Two weeks later, she hit €2.5K in her business and got two keynote speaking gigs. Now today, she's going to share with us what has been the biggest difference from that moment where she came to the call in tears to where she is now. Way beyond the €2.5K, by the way. Welcome, Belkisa.

Belkisa: Hi. Nice to see you.

Sina: How are you doing? It's your first time in Dubai. Welcome.

Belkisa: Yeah, and I love it.

Sina: Everyone just falls in love with this place, and I'm so excited because I'd love to brainwash everyone to come here. You're originally from Germany. You're from Germany like myself, and you live in a village, correct?

Belkisa: In a really small, small, small village. So I need to leave Germany immediately, definitely. And I have two kids, so they need to not know what it's like to be cold and freezing in Germany.

Sina: I think the biggest point for me today is that I'm so happy for you to be here and to tell us a little bit more about your journey. We also have a little bit of time to go through where your business is now because we haven't talked in a while. So give everyone an overview. What was your background before you even got to know me? What have you done for the last 15 years?

Belkisa: I was in the industry for about 20 years. I was the only female leader in a male-dominated field. So you need to know that I was literally a man. I dressed like a man.

Sina: You can't even imagine this now with your red lipstick.

Belkisa: Yeah. I was wearing suits and men's slippers.

Sina: Wow.

Belkisa: I thought like a man. I felt like a man. I spoke like a man. I was a man. And one day, I stood in my office, looked down and thought, "Oh God, I am a man. I lost my femininity completely."

Sina: And why do you think that was? Why did you get to that place in the first place?

Belkisa: Because I realized really early in my life that men told me women are not supposed to be career women. Women need to stay at home, become mothers and tradwives.

Sina: Oh my gosh.

Belkisa: So they told me, "You're not meant to be here. You're not meant to be successful."

Sina: And what industry did you get into? What did you do?

Belkisa: The metal industry.

Sina: Okay. Metal manufacturing?

Belkisa: Yeah.

Sina: Okay, so very masculine.

Belkisa: 98% of the people there were men. So it was a really, really male-dominated field. And I started to write a diary. I wrote down the behavior of men and women because I found out that women and men have two different ways of communicating and two different ways of behaving. It was quite interesting for me, so I analyzed it and studied it. I studied all the men. How are they? They have a different way of showing strength.

Sina: Yes.

Belkisa: A different way of talking and showing their standing.

Sina: Their authority.

Belkisa: Yeah, their authority. And women are more like, "I don't want to disturb. I don't want to be loud." So I started writing a diary to analyze it. But I analyzed it, and then I became it.

Sina: Mmm.

Belkisa: I started to analyze it, and then a short time later, I became the first female leader in this male-dominated field. But then I came to this point where I stood in my office, looked down and said, "Okay, I just became a man. I lost all my femininity. I'm not a woman at all."

Sina: How did it affect your life?

Belkisa: I was always in hustling mode. Chasing, hustling, to-dos, working 24 hours. I was always working. Even when I was at home and had some rest, I checked my emails. I did presentations. I always needed to work on something. It was very crazy.

Sina: Plus, you have your kids.

Belkisa: I have two kids, and I wasn't happy. I was always under pressure. I had this huge pressure on my chest. I don't know if you know what I mean, but it felt like something was sitting here. I had to breathe, but I couldn't. That was the feeling I had for many years.

Sina: And then you found the workshop. First of all, how did you get to know me in the first place?

Belkisa: I don't know. I saw your Reels on Instagram, and I didn't realize that I was so far away from my femininity. You said something like, "How you can start attracting and stop chasing." And I was like, "I need to hear that." That was my biggest pain point.

Sina: Because I think it is for a lot of women. We all get into this rat race where we prove ourselves, and then we need to keep proving ourselves to feel worthy. We need to chase, chase, chase clients. That was a big part of the butterfly story that changed my life - the idea of stopping chasing and starting attracting. I didn't understand that was the feminine way to do things until I did it, and I felt so good. I felt like myself again. That's huge, especially if you're ambitious. I feel like we have a lot of people out there showing us, "This is how you have to be disciplined and ambitious, and you have to be in your masculine energy to be successful in business." And I just don't believe that. Especially because we women don't want to dread every second of our business in order to be successful. So you were at that point where you said, "I wrote it down. I became what I wrote down." By the way, that's a good lesson for everyone - only write down things that you actually want in your life. You're actually 30% more likely to achieve something if you write it down. So you achieved becoming a man.

Belkisa: Becoming a man.

Sina: Now you needed to reverse it. What is the first thing you said, "I want to work on," now that you knew about attract versus chase?

Belkisa: The hardest thing for me was to let go and trust the process. I remember that day when I sent you a voice message on WhatsApp. "Sina, Sina, the biggest lesson for me was to trust the process. Yes, I trust the process." I can't explain that feeling. It was like six-year-old Belkisa sitting in front of her birthday cake. That was the feeling. I had these images in my head. I will never forget learning to trust the process. Of course, don't get me wrong. You need to work hard for your business, for your career, for your goals. But you need to trust God. He's the best of planners. He has already written what is meant to be yours. So I work hard. I do everything to achieve my goals. But I trust the process. I trust Him, and everything is going to be perfect.

Sina: Yes. I remember that voice message. And I want to go back to what happened before because that was the moment in the workshop. You had the moment where you figured out, "Okay, you know what? I became a man." You joined the Garden Mentoring program. Then tell us about the workshop. Tell everyone what happened.

Belkisa: I remember it like it was yesterday. And I tried to watch that workshop again.

Sina: You couldn't.

Belkisa: I couldn't.

Sina: It was very emotional. I think at least five women started crying with you on the call. But give everyone the background. What happened?

Belkisa: I was sitting in this workshop, and like always, we were celebrating the success of all the participants. They're talking about, "Oh, I got 20K more followers, and I have these views, and this happened." And Belkisa sat in front of the laptop and thought, "Okay, I'm working night and day, posting three Reels a day, doing everything from Garden Mentoring, and nothing - really nothing - is happening." I was sitting there, and I was so close to quitting everything. I think it was one of the biggest "I'm done" moments in my life.

Sina: Wow.

Belkisa: I was sitting there and raised my hand.

Sina: Yes.

Belkisa: And then you said, "What do you want to say?" I just started to cry and said, "Hey, Sina, I can't anymore. I can't do this anymore. It's not meant to be mine." I don't know if you can remember that.

Sina: I do. I do remember. What I remember is you kept apologizing for crying.

Belkisa: Yeah.

Sina: And I said, "It's okay. It's totally okay." And I'm starting to tear up again because it's so normal as well when you're in that masculine energy that you want to suppress your feelings. So I felt that pain a lot.

Belkisa: Yeah. I was 20 years in the industry, and they always told me, "You have to put down your feelings. Don't show emotions. You have to be professional. Please, do not ever, ever cry." So this was the biggest mistake you could make as a woman, especially. First of all, it was horrible for me to cry in front of all of you. I thought, "Where is my professionalism going? Where is it?" I lost it. I lost my femininity. It was like, "Okay, I'm losing myself right now." And that's why it was such a big "I'm done" moment for me. I was literally standing in front of the ruins of my life. Everything I was until that workshop was gone. It was lying in front of my feet, and I didn't know how to pick those pieces up again.

Sina: What was lying there? What was ruined? What did you feel like wasn't there anymore?

Belkisa: Myself. My vision. My way of being. My behavior. My thinking. My movement. My personality. Everything. My mindset. Everything was lying in front of my feet, and I couldn't grab it anymore. I couldn't. And this was... I need to focus right now because I'm so close to crying again. It was heartbreaking.

Sina: Yeah. Let's jump forward two weeks later. What happened?

Belkisa: I locked myself in my room and quit everything. I quit Instagram. I quit LinkedIn. I turned off my phone. And I said to myself, "Okay, you just need to find yourself. Where are you?" The biggest lesson for me then was to work on my why. And it was kind of surprising to me that I had been more than 35 years on this earth and had never asked myself the question, "What is my reason for being?" Of course, I thought about that. I had nightmares. I'm standing in front of God, and He asks me, "What is your trace? What is the legacy you want to leave behind?" And I was always crying and saying, "I don't know. I don't know." Then I woke up in the middle of the night crying, crying, crying. My mom's apartment is three meters away from my house.

Sina: It's okay. I'll translate it for you.

Belkisa: Thank you.

Sina: Just two Germans learning English with each other.

Belkisa: My mom's apartment is three meters away from my house. I ran to her and said, "Mom, Mom, I'm dreaming of God. And He asked me what I'm supposed to leave behind. What is my reason for being?" And she told me, "Girl, are you sleeping enough? Are you going crazy? What is happening with you? Build a school or something like that. It's your passion." And I sat down and thought, "Okay, I need to figure that out." I have my past. I have my whole life in ruins in front of me. So let's face it. Then I started to think about my vision again, about my future and my reason for being. And I found it. I think we have two very important days in our lives. The first day is our birthday. And the second is the day when we discover our why. I will never forget that moment. I was in my office and said to myself, "Belkisa, you're going to rebuild Gaza again. You are going to build schools and mosques and hospitals full of light and beauty and hope." And I'm saving a lot of money from my business every month to make this dream come true. Insha'Allah, it will be.

Sina: Insha'Allah. Wow. So much happened. And I remember - first of all, for everyone who doesn't understand what she means by "I'm done moments," we have our own language inside the mentoring program. These "I'm done moments" and the why are, of course, in the first module of the program for a reason. The "I'm done moments" are really the moments where you say, "I'm done. I can't do this anymore. I need to change something." A lot of women have their "I'm done moments" before they join the program. You were so special because you had yours inside the program, literally in the first workshop you joined. And it's such an important and powerful moment because then you know what you want to leave behind. Sometimes it is that moment where everything feels like it's ruined and it's lying there broken, and you need to pick it up again. Those are also the moments you can retell and monetize. You can say, "This is what I went through. This is how I got out of it. Now I can help other people do the same." So just for everyone's background, those are "I'm done moments."

Belkisa: I remember you said a lot of times, "Trust the process and trust the journey or the person you will be after this journey." And for me, it was like a sentence in a calendar. I heard it, but it was like one of those inspirational quotes you see that don't really get into your heart. But then I had this "I'm done moment," and I thought about it. It really was the journey to yourself. Because when you don't know who you are, how can you help other women or people in your business? I think we're supposed to go through these kinds of crashes in our lives. It's like a new orientation. It's hard and painful and full of emotions, but it needs to be.

Sina: Yes. Thank you for that.

Belkisa: You're welcome.

Sina: I'm so proud of you that you went through that and trusted the process. Because a lot of people come into a program and expect everything to work out in the first second. Then the journey is really understanding that you are the process. You are the goal we're going for, and we build around that. We can make you become known and get you paid. So for everyone to understand your business setup, we know your 9-to-5 history now. Tell us a bit more about your business. How much did you make two weeks after the workshop? What were the opportunities that came to you?

Belkisa: I had a lot of speaking gigs. I'm booked as a keynote speaker, and I love it. Working online is so great, and I'm really grateful for these opportunities. But seeing so many special and great women in person, in their presence...

Sina: Yes.

Belkisa: There's no better way for me. When I'm standing there as a keynote speaker, talking about my past and my vision and transforming women into Legacy Ladies, helping them find their own why and think about their legacy and what they want to leave behind... I'm living a dream. I don't know how to describe it. It's like a rush. I'm living the life I always dreamed about.

Sina: I love that for you because I remember when we talked after the workshop, you said you wanted to do keynote speaking. Then a week later, I think I got the message from you giving me the update.

Belkisa: Yeah. The first client came. The first woman told me she's a huge fan of mine, and she had never commented or liked any Reel of mine. So I had no clue. She reached out and said, "Okay, I need your coaching. Can we talk?" And I was sitting in front of my laptop like, "Yes. Yes, of course. Of course we can." I was jumping around my house like a three-year-old kid. You cannot imagine my celebration.

Sina: And how many days after the workshop was that?

Belkisa: I think ten days. I don't know.

Sina: Wow.

Belkisa: And I called Victoria. "Victoria, Victoria, I had my first client!" And Victoria said, "What? That's amazing! I will call Sina immediately." It was mind-blowing. Then I had two speaking gigs, and so on and so on. More women reached out to me. I also recognized - and that's a very important part for me - that Instagram wasn't my platform. I was chasing views on Instagram, looking at my videos. Maybe a maximum of 1,000 views, and I was crying.

Sina: I remember when we were on the call and I was like, "Why are you on Instagram?"

Belkisa: Yeah. You said to me, "Belkisa, why are you on Instagram?" And I was like, "I don't know."

Sina: Because everyone is.

Belkisa: Yeah. Then you asked me, "What about LinkedIn?" And we went to LinkedIn. I'll never forget that. We saw that I had the same Reels getting around 600 views on Instagram and half a million to a million views on LinkedIn. And I didn't even recognize it because I was so focused on Instagram. Then you told me, "Belkisa, you have to leave Instagram. LinkedIn is your platform." And it is. All my clients came from LinkedIn. And it's great.

Sina: So how much did you make in a month from your clients?

Belkisa: It depends, but I'm at an average of €10K per month.

Sina: That's an average?

Belkisa: Yeah.

Sina: Wow. That's amazing. I'm so excited for you.

Belkisa: I'm happy. Thank you.

Sina: It's so nice to have you, honestly. And I think this is something to remember. If we have a lot of different learnings from today - everyone, I hope you only write down the things you actually want to have. €10K months, and we're talking euros, right?

Belkisa: Yeah.

Sina: Amazing. So €10K months, keynote speaking gigs. But I think on a deeper level, it's getting to know yourself.

Belkisa: Yeah.

Sina: It's also understanding where your clients are. Because we're talking about chasing clients the whole time, chasing views and chasing engagement. And you were looking at a totally different platform. When I looked at your profile and talked to you on the call, I understood that Instagram wasn't your thing because you have an industry background. You have this strong leadership background in a corporation. And if you're looking at your clients, you need to understand: where are your clients? Because if you want to attract your clients, you need to be where they are, right? And all your clients are women who want to grow their careers. They're on LinkedIn.

Belkisa: Yeah.

Sina: They're in that place. So you've got to be in that place. What I love as well is seeing your change. Do you remember your first couple of videos and what you were wearing compared to who you are now? I don't think in your first videos you were wearing red lipstick and pink.

Belkisa: No. I remember you said to me, "Oh, Belkisa, when I'm talking to you one-on-one, you're much softer than the way you are in a video." And I was thinking about that. I didn't know what you meant. "What am I supposed to be? How am I supposed to behave?" I didn't know how to behave anymore. That was one of those "I'm done moments" I went through. And now, if you check my videos, they're much more feminine. I love these retro styles - the '50s, the '40s, the '30s. So I found my style. But it takes time, of course. That's what we have to remember. It takes time. You cannot just stand up and walk. If you're a mom, you know what I mean. It takes time to learn to walk.

Sina: Do you remember what I said in the workshop to you?

Belkisa: Yeah. You said exactly that.

Sina: I think that's so important for everyone. We give ourselves so much time for other things. We study for five years. We go to school for 12 years. We're in a corporation for ten years before we even expect to be near a leadership level. But as soon as we say, "I want to have my own business. I'm going to put myself out there. I'm going to post on Instagram, LinkedIn, whatever my platform is," after two months we're like, "Nothing is happening. Oh my God."

Belkisa: Yeah.

Sina: But you didn't give yourself even a fraction of the time. And I feel like a lot of times that has to do with believing in the dream you have. How much do you believe in that?

Belkisa: A thousand percent. It's my vision. I need to rebuild Gaza. So this is the reason I'm living. It will work. And it works because it's my mindset.

Sina: Did you write it down?

Belkisa: Yeah, of course. This is a big part of your Garden Mentoring program - the mindset, believing in yourself. And it's not just a phrase or a sentence. It needs to be here, in your heart, to touch you. Then it will work.

Sina: What have been the biggest lessons you've learned from the mentoring?

Belkisa: Trust the process. Trust yourself. Work, but the result isn't in your hands.

Sina: Why do you think you came here and didn't go to a viral guru or some other program? Why did you think this was the right fit for you?

Belkisa: Everything in life happens for a reason. I don't know why I'm here, but I appreciate it, and I'm thankful and grateful for it. I know that this is part of trusting. It needed to happen. Who am I to question that? I need to recognize it, be grateful, do my part, and then let it go.

Sina: What would you tell another woman who is maybe on a similar path right now? Something she can avoid doing and something she can do to save some time.

Belkisa: Avoid comparing yourself with others. Comparison is like war with yourself.

Sina: Wow.

Belkisa: It tears you apart into pieces. You need to focus on yourself and know who you want to be. So don't compare at all. You really need to avoid this. What you need to focus on is trusting, doing your best, and figuring out your own way. And give yourself enough time to do it, learn it and implement it.

Sina: Tell us one specific strategy you learned in Garden Mentoring that you apply and that always works. Something that's really a needle mover. Something practical someone can do.

Belkisa: That's a good question. I love the why framework.

Sina: The blueprint?

Belkisa: The blueprint. Yes. Thank you. I love that. If I have an "I'm done moment," I write it down and think about it. What can I learn from that? Most of the time, we're praying to God, "Please, can we close this chapter and begin a new one?" But if you don't understand the lesson from this chapter, you cannot begin a new one. So I write it down and think, "What can I learn from that? What can I do differently in the future?" Then I figure out a strategy for myself. This was one of the biggest learnings for me.

Sina: That's also how you created your offer, right? What is it that I went through? What did I learn from it? How can I create a strategy from what I learned and how I got out of it? And how can I sell this to someone who needs the exact same strategy?

Belkisa: Yeah. Honestly, everyone can go to ChatGPT and ask a question. So this art of being human, this personality, is what separates you from AI, right?

Sina: Yes, of course. That's the kind of trust-building you need with your audience. It's also authority - understanding that you went through this and came out of it. "I want to learn from you because maybe I'm at the exact same spot." I know this sounds interesting, but if you understood the power it has... There's only 1% of women watching this right now who are going to apply this. One percent. But the ones who do are going to be successful. Okay, I want to go to the end. How is your life different after the mentoring? Before, you said you were working 24/7. You were always in your masculine, chasing. How has it shifted? How is it now?

Belkisa: I found myself again. And when I'm lying in my bed...

Sina: Lying.

Belkisa: Lying in my bed.

Sina: I think people know what you mean.

Belkisa: You can feel what I think, right? I'm much more confident and peaceful. And you can't pay any amount of money for that. I'm in my bed, and I know that everything happens for a reason. When I have great opportunities, I have this mindset of, "If it's meant to be mine, it will be. If not, it's okay. Another door will open." This kind of mindset is a blessing. Earlier, I was in my bed thinking, "Oh God, have I forgotten something? I need to do that. I need to do this." I had a piece of paper every night with my to-dos.

Sina: With your to-dos.

Belkisa: Yeah. I would wake up in the night and think, "Oh, I need to remember that," and write it down.

Sina: Wow.

Belkisa: I was stressed all the time, every second of my life. And now I know what is meant to be mine will be mine. And if not, it's totally fine for me. This is a kind of peace in my heart. You can't buy this feeling with any money in the world.

Sina: It's like peace in your heart.

Belkisa: Yes.

Sina: Priceless.

Belkisa: There you go. It's priceless.

Sina: Okay. So tell us a little bit about the specifics. €10K a month. How many clients is that at the moment?

Belkisa: Four or five.

Sina: Beautiful. And what does your day-to-day look like? How much do you actually work on that?

Belkisa: I have quite long days because I have two little kids. I start every morning early, at 6 a.m.

Sina: They're three and six years old, right?

Belkisa: Yeah. They go to kindergarten, thank God. Then I can work. I have time to be a mom, and I have time to be a career woman. They come home, we sit together, we eat together, we play together. I can always reach out to my emails and have some phone calls, but I'm always with my family. I built my business around my home and my family. And this is also priceless, especially for us women. Of course, I don't need to go to my job nine to five.

Sina: Oh, now you're going to make me cry because you're literally describing my why. This is why I created this - so women like you could say, "I have a business around my home, and I am with my kids."

Belkisa: Yeah. And this is a blessing. Sina, we talked, I don't know, in February?

Sina: Yes.

Belkisa: And really, my whole life is changing. It's changed. It's changing. Still changing. It's crazy. Thank you for that.

Sina: You're welcome. And we have so much more that we want to get to. What's the next level that you want to look at?

Belkisa: I will build a Legacy Lady Circle. A community with ladies who know what female empowerment is. Not to blame men or others, but to take their own legacy into their hands and build a legacy. To decide what they want to leave behind and what kind of traces they want to leave behind. And they can support each other and walk together. To have this kind of female empowerment. Because we need more female role models in our lives. Especially in these times, with wars and politics and all that stuff, we need more role models.

Sina: Yes. Feminine role models.

Belkisa: This is the next step.

Sina: Why did you know that the feminine way to business and the feminine business model was going to be better than the masculine? Did you learn that over time through the program? Did you already have a feeling about it?

Belkisa: I remember one video of yours. You said something like, "Are you still wondering why these to-dos and checklists and starting at 5 a.m. and hustling all day aren't working for you?" And I was sitting there like, "Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. What am I doing wrong? That's me. That's me." If you understand that women and men are not the same, we have different hormonal cycles. We have different ways of behaving. We have different ways of communicating. Remember, I wrote a diary for ten years.

Sina: Yes.

Belkisa: So I wrote it all down, and now I understand it fully - 200%. We're not the same as men. The world outside, all the businesses and industries, are built around men's cycles - 24 hours.

Sina: The 9-to-5.

Belkisa: The 9-to-5. And that's not the way we work. That's not the way we function. Therefore, we need to build our own industry. We need to build our own legacy, our own way of feminine business. And attract other women, be role models and start sharing. I think we need to learn that from kindergarten or school, not when you're 30 or 40 years old.

Sina: It's never too late.

Belkisa: Yeah. I'm really grateful for that. But it's much easier to live when you have this kind of knowledge earlier in life. You know what I mean?

Sina: Yes. So we have a lot to do. I need to invite you to the next workshop to share your story because I think a lot of women are now going to remember you. "That was Belkisa that I cried with in the workshop, and now she's the success story making €10K a month."

Belkisa: Great. I will do that.

Sina: I love that. Thank you so much for coming. And I want to write down the next goal for you. What's the next income goal for the next year?

Belkisa: For the next year? €20K... €25K.

Sina: Nice.

Belkisa: I want to move to Dubai, so I will do that, Insha'Allah.

Sina: Let's write down €25K and Dubai. And we'll see each other next year, Insha'Allah. We'll have a follow-up podcast when you're officially living here with your two kids.

Belkisa: Thank you so much.

Sina: Thank you. Thanks for being here. You're such a great role model. We need more of you in the world.

Belkisa: Thank you.

Sina: Thank you so much, Belkisa. And if you loved this episode, make sure that you like and subscribe. Share in the comments below what has been the biggest lesson from this whole conversation with Belkisa. And share this with a friend who also wants to build a feminine business. I'll see you next time. Bye-bye.

Sina: Welcome to a very special podcast episode. Today we have an exciting guest with me, and we will talk about her journey into her expertise in nutrition, wellness, fitness - everything that she's doing. But most importantly, we want to talk about her story of getting here. A lot of times, what we get confused about is: how do we start a business around the things that we love doing, and how do we get out of the grind and hustling mode? So today, we will talk about her story and what helps her stay balanced, how she can help other women, and what she feels is the driving force behind her work. I also want to talk about her brand and how she's become known. She has over 100,000 followers on Instagram, and she is helping women daily. And the big part about this, as we all know, is not the numbers. It's how many people you can actually impact. So today, we'll talk about how she got here, her plans to keep growing, some of her journey so far in Garden Mentoring, and what she's learned so far. I'm super excited to have her here. Hello, Baraa.

Baraa: Hello.

Sina: Welcome.

Baraa: Salaam. Thank you for having me. This is really exciting.

Sina: I'm excited to hear your story because I think anytime we talk, I learn so much from you. Everyone learns so much from you - from your online presence, your courses, your programs. But there's still so much that we haven't heard, which is your story and the journey behind everything.

Baraa: Yes, I'm excited to do that.

Sina: So give me a little bit of an overview. Where did you start? Where are you now? What do you feel like the biggest difference is from when you first started with nutrition, health and fitness versus where you are right now?

Baraa: Wow. Good question. I think I started at a time where I was very confused, but excited. I didn't have answers, and I was craving answers. I wanted to know everything about nutrition, exercise, wellness. How do you stop chronic disease? The science behind everything. I love the science of where I started as a dietitian, and I just wanted to learn more. But I was so confused as to how. How do you get results? How do you live a healthy lifestyle? What does it mean? What do you have to do? That's how it started for me. And now, I think it's just my lifestyle. It's become me. It's something I preach, yes, but it's something I really practice. I find so much joy in it, and I've identified with it so much because I love it. I've learned to love it. I've seen the benefits that come with it. I know the benefits that come with it. So now it's a lot less confusion and a lot more, "This feels good. I know what's good for me. I know how to help others with the same thing - with feeling healthy and living a healthy lifestyle." I think I started in a place where I was very much like, "What is that diet? How do you do this? How do you do that?" And now I'm at a place where it feels a lot more natural. It's just how I operate.

Sina: And now you're also in a different part of your life. You're a mother now. You're a first-time mother. How has that impacted your journey? Not just your knowledge, but who you are. You've now embodied what you're doing, but how does it show up in all these different ups and downs and challenges of life?

Baraa: Ryan, my son, he's one now. He centers me, actually, with a lot of the things I'm doing. I work from home mainly, and he's at home with me. So I go into different worlds of working, cooking, going to work out, coming back. And then seeing him just recenters me on what's most important, which is being present. Watching him go about life and do things is just one of the most beautiful things. I feel like before, I didn't have that recentering moment. Even though I would meditate, I would exercise, I'm very mindful. But I feel like there's nothing that brings me more into the present moment than seeing him. It's like, "Oh my God, I love it. I did that. I created that." It's the most amazing miracle. And it just brings me back to life every single time. Every time I'm stuck in something and he's there, it's like, "This is it." And it's so beautiful.

Sina: I also want to talk about this because the way you talk about all the work you're doing - you're on social media, you have your own business, you're working with brands like Adidas - there's so much going on that, to you, is just part of who you are. But to other people, it's incredible. We talk a lot about your unfair advantage. Everything that we see you be, we just think you're perfect. We think, "She has it all under control." It's so funny because we had this conversation last week. You did your first 10K after you had your son. You sent me that video, right? And you were like, "Sina, what would you improve about this video?" And I was like, "You. It's too perfect." Every kilometer, you're just smiling. And it turns out that's what we thought. Me, and probably the entire rest of the world, thought, "That's just normal for her. She just goes running." You were running before giving birth, and now you just got back to it. But what's the truth?

Baraa: The truth is I started running eight weeks ago.

Sina: And now you're at 10K.

Baraa: And I'm at 10K.

Sina: Yes.

Baraa: I mean, listen. The way it's always been for me is: you set out on something that's a little exciting to you. A goal. And with this goal, you put a plan and you make it gradual. Nothing insane. And you just stick to it. I'm dedicated to the things that come up because I believe in results. I believe in working for what you want, putting in the effort, and then getting it.

Sina: But where does that come from? How did she get there? There has to be something in your childhood or your story that got you to be so dedicated to things.

Baraa: I think that's a hard one. I think I was always interested in how people get results. This is from nutrition, not necessarily from childhood. When I came to Dubai, after the US and after Lebanon, I felt like people here - because it's a hub - you get people from all over the world. You see insane goals and results, and it gets you going. I really believe Dubai gets you going. And I was inspired by what a lot of people do. I'm inspired by athletes' stories. I'm also a sports nutritionist. So I was very inspired by, "How do the greats do the things that they do?" I went into self-development so many times. And from self-development, that's when I saw the dedication, the work, the effort that you need to put in to get results. There's a little bit of hustle in there too.

Sina: Yeah.

Baraa: It's what I gained over the years. If you want something, you go for it. You set a goal. This is how it is. And there is negativity that can come with that, but there's also a lot of positivity that comes with it. It's achieving goals.

Sina: I think that's one of the things I'm always really after. You have to have the balance between masculine and feminine. Because if you don't have the masculine, you're not going to get up and go after your goals. And if you don't have the feminine, you start getting into hustle, grind and burnout. You lose yourself. So you didn't have this discipline in your childhood? It came later?

Baraa: I wouldn't say that I did. I wasn't really into sports.

Sina: And apart from sports, what about work?

Baraa: In Lebanon, I was pretty intense with work.

Sina: Okay. So let's talk about all of this because you're throwing around Lebanon, America and Dubai. Let's go back. Where were you raised?

Baraa: I was born in Saudi Arabia, moved to Lebanon from a very young age. I lived there until I was about nine or ten. Then we moved to the US, to Michigan. We lived there around four or five years, then moved back to Lebanon. So middle school and a little bit of high school I did in the US. Then I moved back to Lebanon for the last two years of high school and all of my undergrad. I studied nutrition in Lebanon as well. Then I worked in Lebanon afterwards for a few years. There were a lot of learnings throughout the years. I learned to adapt so quickly to different environments. I learned how to get along with people, how to network, how to keep my eyes open to different things. And I learned a lot through my parents and the things they did throughout the years to keep things going. In terms of dedication and work, right after university, my colleagues and I started a business together. They would say I was pretty intense. I think I saw that my dad was pretty intense with the way he worked at the time. Same thing with my mom. She was also working. Both of them had this work, work, work mentality. So I just went into it like that as well. "This is how you go about business."

Sina: A quick break in between. If you haven't subscribed yet, please click the subscribe button and turn on the notifications. And let's get back into that. So how did all the different countries shape you?

Baraa: Wow. Let's start with the US because I feel like that's when I was most aware of the changes happening around me. The US helped me be a lot more humble. It allowed me to be a lot more grounded, a lot more natural. And it allowed me not to care as much.

Sina: Care about what?

Baraa: What other people think. I can't say I'm completely like that now. I care a lot more about what people think, etc. I'm working on it. But the US gives you this "I don't really care" vibe, at least where I was living. Then moving to Lebanon, it makes you fixate more on what people are saying, what they're doing, what you look like, your shape, your body shape, the aesthetic. It makes you hyper-focused on money and status. It's very focused on that. There are so many beautiful things that come from Lebanon as well - the culture, the family, all of that. But in terms of my character, I feel like those are some of the things I learned during these times. And I can't say this without saying that being in Lebanon taught me how to be very quick on my feet, how to network really well, how to hustle, how to go after the things that you want, how to have the right people around you. So Lebanon taught me that. But the US taught me not to care that much.

Sina: I think that's an amazing lesson, especially for a young woman. You're so vulnerable at that age. Your body is changing. You're developing into womanhood. And every single comment sticks with you. I think I'm a very confident person. I've always been because my father always told me, "Don't care about people. If people gossip about you, they're just jealous." I have a lot of my confidence from my father, and I'm really grateful for that. But I still remember every single comment someone ever made about my appearance. Because as a young girl, you fixate on that. "Your hair is too curly." "Your eyes are too big." All these stupid comments. Especially in nutrition, health and fitness, what exists now did not exist back then. There was this idea of the perfect way your body should look. How did that affect you?

Baraa: In the US, it wasn't fixated on in a negative way. I was developing at that time and food wasn't a big deal. We would eat quite unhealthy. I was telling you the story the other day. It was my first day in middle school in the US. We were walking to lunch, and then all of a sudden everybody started racing to lunch. I'm like, "What's going on?" Everybody gets to the cafeteria and starts piling up food. Then the next day, same thing. The third day, I'm like, "Okay, I'm in." It was like the food was going to run out. We would eat this garlicky buttery bread and nachos and cheese. That was me for three or four years in the US, not really caring about nutrition. Nobody really educated us about it at the time. And the changes in my body were just fine. Whether I gained weight or lost weight, it didn't matter. Actually, the curvier I was, the nicer it was. That was the vibe I got. Then when I moved to Lebanon, that was completely different because what was perceived as nice or cool there was different. It was thinness. Maybe also as we're growing older, the body shape changes and what people seek changes too. I remember I had a friend who would show how loose her pants were. Those things stick with you. It's so weird. When I revisited this, I was like, "What a weird thing." But that sticks with you as a child. You're like, "Okay, my pants need to be looser. I need to be thinner." Then when I would go shopping or there would be a photo or something, it would always be, "Suck it in. Suck it in. Get it straight." And you're always thinking, "Oh, there's something wrong with my belly or a little bit of belly fat." So that shift in what is perceived as nice or healthy or the goal really messed with me. What are we trying to do? Are we trying to be curvy? Are we trying to be thin? What's going on? And the conversations amongst parents, moms, moms' friends were about body shape and body image. So I was curious. How do you do that? What does food mean? How does it play a role in all of this? That partly sparked my interest in nutrition later on.

Sina: Did you feel like it was difficult for you at the time to have a healthy relationship with all of this?

Baraa: I do think I struggled with it, but not too much. I had a lot of other things I was busy with. But I do remember one time going to the supermarket. I was 13, and I was looking for artificially sweetened chocolate. As a 13-year-old. What? I'm not diabetic. I don't need something like that. But I thought, "Oh, I need to lose a little bit of weight, and this is what I need to do." Maybe I bought it and didn't like it, and I just thought, "Okay, I don't know what to do with this," and moved on. But clearly there was something festering in my mind about trying to lose weight or not eating chocolate. I'm lucky not to have gone down another road with that, like eating disorders or other things that can happen at that age when someone is feeling very vulnerable but doesn't have the answers.

Sina: Is that one of the reasons why you got into the field?

Baraa: I think it piqued my interest, for sure. It told me, "I don't know how to do things, but this is very interesting." Then studying nutrition completely changed my mind on what nutrition really is. It's so much more than weight loss, fixation and body image. It's about health. It's about not having chronic disease, as unsexy as it sounds. It's about not having heart disease, not having high cholesterol. I was very passionate about that when I was in school. I helped my dad with his cholesterol at the time as well. Now it's a little bit different.

Sina: So you were figuring everything out from a science perspective. You wanted to learn it and understand it. But nowadays, you're not just talking about nutrition. You talk about the holistic aspect of it. When did that come in? When did meditation and fitness come into this?

Baraa: I did fitness for about seven years alongside nutrition. I got the results that I wanted. I was satisfied. But there was something in there that wasn't really coming together.

Sina: Okay, but first, why did you get into fitness in the first place? What sparked you to say, "I'm going to become a runner. I'm going to go to the gym"? Because I can tell you from my life, I always loved sports. I wanted to become a professional tennis player. Sports were a huge part of my life. But I think I turned sports into a daily habit when I was really annoyed by things. If my father would say, "You can't do this, you can't do that," or something happened, instead of screaming into my pillow, I would go for a run. I don't even love running like that. But if there's something unregulated in my life, if I need to get emotions out, if I'm angry, I go for a run. What happened in your life where you started fitness?

Baraa: At the beginning, it was just curiosity. I was curious about nutrition, curious about fitness, trying to find my place in this world when there were so many changes happening in my life. There was the move from Lebanon to the US, then back to Lebanon. We changed houses a lot growing up. My parents were going through their own thing at the time as well, with the separation and everything. I feel like I needed something to make me feel like I fit in. To help me find myself. To have a safe space. Maybe I didn't know it at the time, but reflecting back, I think that's what it was. Fitness has always been the thing I go to when I'm not feeling well. I know it picks me up, but it's also my constant. I've needed a constant because I've moved a lot. Even though it's Lebanon, then US, then Lebanon again, in all these places we moved houses around four times. And it's a blessing. I adapt so freaking quickly. You have no idea. You put me anywhere and I go. And I love that. I think that's a huge part of who I am and why I'm always going after different things. Because I feel like I can do it. But all of that moving did not fulfill a basic human need, which is certainty and stability. As humans, we need that. And I think eventually exercise became the certainty and stability I needed. I take it with me everywhere. If I'm in Dubai, I do it five times a week, six times a week, seven times if I really need it. If I go to Lebanon, I can do it too. If I go to New York, I can do it. If I go to Japan, I can do it. It's there for me. It's a part of me that I can take with me everywhere. And it feels safe. That's fitness to me.

Sina: That's beautiful. So you have nutrition, you have fitness, and it gives you that sense of stability and control.

Baraa: A lot of control. I control the reps, the sets, the weights, the progress. Which I think is huge.

Sina: So how do you measure progress?

Baraa: Progress for me in fitness changes every phase of my life. I would say every few years, the way I measure progress changes. For a certain period of time, it was the weights. Let's say I was squatting 30, then 35, then 40, then 50. That's how I measured progress for a while. At one point, it was totally aesthetic progress. "This is the before. This is the after." There was a while where progress was more about sports or performance. Whether it's running - I've run a half marathon before - jumping, doing plyometrics, performance. And now it's been a postpartum journey. Moving from a C-section and being bedbound for so long to getting my strength back and feeling strong, whatever way that looks on a postpartum mom's body. And I love it.

Sina: I want to talk about this because we talked about our expectations going into labor and postpartum. Obviously, you're in the health space, so you had a lot of plans for yourself. You were very prepared, and you still ended up having a C-section. Tell us a little bit about this journey, how you felt about it, the wounds.

Baraa: Sina, this was hard, to be very honest with you. Because I put expectations on myself and I did not prepare myself for a C- section. I took three courses about birth. Every single course had a C-section module. Skip that. Because that's not happening to me. I was so headstrong about it that I was truly not ready for a C-section. I labored for 12 hours. And as my husband says, we really fought it. He thinks I fought the C-section too much. He thinks I should have just done it in the first two hours.

Sina: But what do you think?

Baraa: I think I had to do what I had to do. I think I fought, but I did not irrationally overfight for something. I feel like I had a right to try my best, to give myself time. I would have wanted to wait more. But it's hard. You hear so many things. You hear things from a midwife, from a nurse, from a doctor. Then you're thinking, "Everybody has an agenda. Everybody wants me to have a C-section." And you're like, "What do I do?" Then they scare you with, "This is risking the life of your son." And you're like, game over. What can you do?

Sina: That sentence always gets you.

Baraa: Yeah. Listen, whether they have an agenda or they don't have an agenda, the baby is out. Whatever is written is written. And there's always hope for women. There's always hopefully a next time. My husband was telling me this weekend, "Next time we know what it is. We're going to go into the C-section." I'm like, "I am trying." And I'm like, "This is not your decision. This is mine and my right, and I will try." But with a little bit less expectation. A little bit less of that thing inside me that I was holding on to so badly. I think I needed to be a little bit looser about it. Hopefully, I will be in the future.

Sina: Thank you for sharing because I know it's emotional. How do you feel that experience changed you?

Baraa: I feel a lot more powerful. I feel humbled by the experience. I feel like I'm capable of so much more. Pregnancy empowered the hell out of me. Birth empowered me so much more. It's maddening. I feel like it's a part of the way of life that is just the most incredible thing to experience.

Sina: How does that change you and your approach to your work?

Baraa: It allows me to take things a little bit easier. Oddly enough, I feel like it's such a big thing that everything else becomes so small. It put things in perspective for me. This is something so huge, so beautiful, so grand. Everything else is okay or figureoutable.

Sina: Did you have any problems throughout your pregnancy or postpartum when it came to body image?

Baraa: Oh yeah. Oh my God, I really struggled. Body image - I brought it to therapy like five times, five therapy sessions. I really struggled with my body growing. I did not know what to expect. I don't know why. I kept trying to make my body develop in a certain way during pregnancy when I had zero control over what it was going to look like. I also compared myself a lot to other bodies. As someone in the fitness field, as a dietitian, I had an idea of what that was supposed to look like. And it's toxic. I had this image of a girl who was pregnant with her abs showing that haunted me. I'm sorry for putting this out there in the world. But it was something I had seen while studying nutrition that stuck with me. And I'm like, "Oh, maybe that's how it is for people in the fitness field." I'm 30 years old and I'm thinking this. Excuse me? In hindsight, it's like, question mark. Going through pregnancy was a huge learning curve. How to look at my body. How to control what you can and let go of what you can't control. You can eat healthy. Move as much as you can. Take care of your health. Meditate. Relax. Do that part. That's what you can control. What you can't control is how your body is actually going to change. How it decides to hold onto water. How the bump looks. What your torso looks like. How your hips change. How your butt becomes bigger. I struggled with trying to make myself look a certain way. I think for the first six months.

Sina: That's a big amount of time. That's most of your pregnancy.

Baraa: Yeah. It was a struggle.

Sina: And afterwards? Postpartum? How did you look at your pregnancy body postpartum, and how did you look at your postpartum body?

Baraa: My pregnancy body, I look at it completely differently now. I look at the photos and I'm like, "Damn, that's beautiful."

Sina: It is beautiful.

Baraa: Then I think, "Oh, you poor thing. I can't believe you struggled with that so badly. Who cares?" Who cares what your bump looked like? What your legs looked like? The thing is, though, people say mean things sometimes. Someone said to me, "You've put it all on your butt."

Sina: I mean, I have to say, it is kind of a compliment.

Baraa: She meant it as a compliment.

Sina: Yeah.

Baraa: But a week later, it stuck with me and I started crying when I saw her. I'm like, "Oh my God, these comments. I can't handle them." Because I was already going through my body-image stuff that she probably didn't know about. So it triggered the hell out of me. There were comments from people that made me hyper-fixated and hyper- aware. Like, "In order not to hear more comments, here's what I need to do." Which is so sad. In my opinion, just be. Eat healthy. Exercise. Do your thing. I'm not about neglecting yourself. I'm not about letting yourself go or not doing the best that you can. No. We've already established that I'm a disciplined human. I stick to the things I like to do. But beyond that, you kind of let go. And that's something I worked on in therapy that helped a lot.

Sina: So you do nutrition, fitness, therapy, meditation. Do you feel it's a must to combine those? Why?

Baraa: I think if you don't, then things aren't linked. You will not stick with it, and you will not understand yourself very well. I think wellbeing is, yes, about your body and your physical health. Yes, it's about what you eat and put into your body. But it's also about your mental state. How do you show up? How are you showing up to your workouts? How are you feeling every morning? How do you deal with the rest of your day? I think that really matters. Because you're either approaching everything with anger and frustration, and then you're like, "I don't have time for this. I don't have time for fitness. I don't have time for that." Or you're more centered and relaxed, and able to realize, "I need to exercise. I need to do this for myself." I feel like getting clear on what's going on with you really helps. Because I also think that when there's so much going on emotionally, you let that out through food. That's where emotional eating comes in. Then it becomes very hard for you to be healthy, to eat healthy, to feel okay with yourself. Because when you emotionally eat, you're also very harsh on yourself. You're like, "Oh, you can't get a grip. Oh, I ate too much of this. Oh, this is not good." And I think when you're able to find out what your triggers are, why you're emotionally triggered, you let go of needing to overeat or binge. You stop needing to lose control around food. And I think it allows you to approach fitness in a much easier way. It all comes together so importantly. If I can advise every single one of my clients to really dig deep and go inside, it allows you to approach everything else with so much more ease.

Sina: So tell us how it got to the point where you said, "I do this for myself now, I understand the importance, and now I want to share it with the world." Where was that moment?

Baraa: Obviously, with nutrition, you graduate and it's like, "Here. You need to see clients. Let's go." But genuinely, I've always loved helping people. I love seeing their problem and giving them a solution. And they're like, "Oh my God, my life is so much better." You're not sleeping well? Have you looked into your magnesium? Have you considered a magnesium supplement? Then they're like, "Yeah, I'm sleeping better. This is amazing." Sleep is so integral to everything you do the next day. Your food choices, your exercise, your performance. So tying these things together for people is so powerful. I find that people sometimes don't know that there's something so small - a pain point that they have - that's affecting everything. They're like, "Okay, I want to fix my nutrition and exercise." But it might be this outside thing that you need to fix that will directly help your nutrition and exercise. It could be sleep. It could be not being happy. Maybe you need to go to therapy. It could be anything else going on with you that we need to address in order to do these things. And I find passion in that because it releases a knot. You're like, "Okay, I can now go about everything else that I want for myself in a much easier way."

Sina: So when was the moment for you where you said, "I need therapy"?

Baraa: I was listening to a book. I believe it was Brené Brown. She talks about vulnerability a lot. And also Gabby Bernstein. I don't know if you're familiar with her. She talks about unlocking your potential and living your life at your fullest potential. And in order to do that, you need to release your traumas. And I'm like, "What? Okay. What traumas?" I didn't even know I had traumas. I had traumas that I had suppressed for at least 20 years that I needed to uncover in therapy. I had no idea they were there or holding onto me in every single way.

Sina: Can you give us an example, maybe, if you don't mind?

Baraa: Maybe at a later stage.

Sina: Okay.

Baraa: But yeah, it was about breaking through things around family, the traumas of growing up, the things I learned, limiting beliefs, lack of boundaries. Over the years, I learned to reset, reframe, reprioritize and really understand what's important for me. How to prioritize myself in the right way without being selfish. But caring for myself and healing my inner child who didn't have a lot of the things she needed at the time, for whatever reason. This work is the work I needed to do in order to have my own baby. Because I needed to know that the inner child and that young child would be okay no matter what. They would find their way. So I healed that for myself. I worked on it through therapy, through talking about it. That's the power I learned. When you talk about it, it doesn't have to be with the world. It doesn't have to be something you share with everyone. Just one person. Release it. Let it out. And it will make it so much smaller. You'll learn and you'll find your way to heal from it. That was one of the most important pieces of work I've had to do. And it was through the self-development books that I was inhaling basically in the first five years I was married. It was just like, "Listen, everyone's talking about it. Brené Brown is talking about it. Gabby Bernstein is talking about it. This person's talking about it. I'm not. Let me go see what's there." I'm all about self-development. I'm about finding myself and healing. That was the moment for me.

Sina: I love what you said to me the other day. You told me that the moment you left your house, got married, and had time to do all this work, that changed everything. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Baraa: Before, when I was living with my parents, it was beautiful. It was amazing. But I had to be present for other things than just being myself. I had to be present for what was going on with my parents, the turmoil and things happening at the time. I didn't feel like I had time to just be. I felt like I needed to exist for others a lot more and be there for others a lot more. I love the idea of existing for others and being for others. I support it. I think we're all here for a reason to be with others. But there was a lot for me that I didn't have space for at the time. I wasn't given the space that I needed for certain things. So when I left my parents' house, got married, and moved to Dubai with my husband, all of a sudden I had so much time. There was nobody else. And that's when I dove deep. I was like, "Come on. Let's give myself some space. Let's discover. Let's release. Let's unleash. Let's see where you can go." I'm all about seeing where I can go and how I can flourish and develop. Fitness, nutrition, wellness, meditation, business. I really like to see the depths of where I can reach in the best way possible. But I think the thing I'm most interested in is learning how to be myself as much as possible.

Sina: I love that. And I think there's a huge balance because we always talk about this balance between feminine and masculine. The masculine is, "I want to achieve this, become better, perform, do." And the feminine is being. And you basically summarized the perfect balance. It is important that you go for a goal, see it clearly, and take the action steps to get there. But it's also important that you understand, "I'm not doing this to impress anyone. I'm not doing this just for the numbers. I'm doing this to become my future version." I love how you shared it. But I also know that with discipline, grinding and hustling can come burnout. Tell us a little bit about how you experienced that.

Baraa: Listen, I love the hustle. When I'm in it, I'm in it. Oh my gosh, you cannot stop me. I will go, go, go. But I will also be a little monster. You cannot mess with me. Some people in my life have said they're scared of me in this mode. I can't play often when I'm in my go, go, go masculine energy. I can't find humor. I say no to a lot of things.

Sina: Saying no is not bad. It's a big feminine trait we should all have. The more we say no to things that don't fuel us, the more we can say yes to the things we really want and that are good for us.

Baraa: Yeah, but I was saying no in order to stay committed to my work.

Sina: That's totally fine.

Baraa: But I didn't make space for balance.

Sina: That's where the masculine is overtaking.

Baraa: Correct. I didn't make space for play and all of that. When I look back, I see myself working from day to night without a lot of fun in between.

Sina: Okay.

Baraa: I had coaches at the time who were very hustle, hustle, hustle. Gary Vee was very popular at the time. I would listen to one podcast and be like, "Oh my God, what am I doing? I need to repurpose my content into seven pieces of content." It was a lot. And I wanted more and more and more in order to have a family and a baby who would be comfortable when they came into this world financially. I didn't want any trouble because I've been through that myself. I didn't want that pain. And I did not stop. Then I burned out. And burnout makes you so passionless about what you were doing. You lose your humanity. You lose your beautiful human element. I love people so much. But when I overworked myself, I did not like people so much. I felt like everyone was sucking the energy out of me. Unfortunately, because I love my people. I love my audience. I love my clients. I think they're such go-getters. I love the way they do things. I love that they come to me, and I love that we can do this together and achieve a goal. But I was so burned out that I was done. I needed a break, and I didn't know how to properly take one. I would go to the US for a month or two and disconnect. But I wouldn't really disconnect. I would launch another program.

Sina: Yes. A lot of doing. So here's the thing. There are two parts. Number one, you didn't have fun doing the work. You lost your excitement about the act of doing the things you were originally really excited about. And I think this is where the masculine really overtakes us. Because the feminine way of doing business is, number one, we receive. That's why we're so connected to this idea in Garden Mentoring: we don't chase, we attract.

Baraa: I love it.

Sina: And apart from this, it's really important that we romanticize our work. I think that's one of the things we always see. You're sitting in front of your laptop trying to work in an office. You hear birds outside, you look at the laptop and you're like, "Where's my brain? What's going on? I have nothing in my brain." But then you take your journal, go to a cute coffee shop or go outside in the park, and suddenly the ideas flow. That's the idea. We need to romanticize our work. Even if it's as simple as, "I need to get up at 6 a.m. because I need to get some work done." Put on a candle, make a nice tea, make it beautiful and romantic. When you're creating content, you can make your content your lifestyle. Instead of thinking, "I need to create these seven pieces of content." What are you actually doing? How can I make my day so beautiful that it's worth recording? Then you just record your day and you have content, and you enjoy your time. That's the idea. That's when you feel like you're not doing. You're just being. And that's when people will come. Because earlier we talked about the energetics around what you put into your food, how you approach food. If you're restricting yourself, that can show up negatively in your progress. It's the same online. People feel the energy of whether you come on social media saying, "I need to sell this now. I need to launch this. I've created this for the last three months. I put so much work into this. You need to buy this now because I know it's good for you." Or when you come and say, "Here's what I have. Here's my story. Here's the content I'm creating while I'm living my life. Here's what helped me." Then they'll come because they feel it. You're doing it for the intention of providing value, not only for the intention of having money in the bank. Which is not a bad intention. It's really important to have goals. But people feel if the content was created only for that.

Baraa: That's true. It's so true. I love the idea of romanticizing work and being in your feminine energy and vibing with yourself. That's something I'm so happy I was recently more able to do. Before that, I thought it was difficult with my house, the office, how things were. Now I feel like I'm able to create that space for myself. But do you feel like that also makes things look a little perfect when you romanticize things?

Sina: Here's the balance. Number one, you're romanticizing, but you're not changing reality. We're not like those gurus who book an Airbnb and act like it's their house.

Baraa: They exist?

Sina: Yeah. Or you're in Dubai and you rent a supercar and act like it's your supercar. You're still living your actual life. That's the thing. You're living it. But then when it comes to sharing, you do need to share your story. That's why we're here today. So you actually share a little bit more. It's not just smiles through the entire 10K run.

Baraa: No, it's not. Oh my God. But it's hard. As a millennial, it's hard for me not to do the perfect thing. I feel like it's embedded in our generation. When Instagram first came out, it was all about the super beautiful curated feed. So I'm like, "Okay, perfect. Let's do that. I know how to do that." Then eventually it became very Gen Z and super whatever. Show up in your PJs and it's cool and it's a mess. Half-eaten pasta on the plate suddenly gets 100,000 likes. And you're like, "Whoa, what did I miss?" Now it's like, how do you find yourself in between all of that? But I'll tell you that I've always felt it was in me to just show the easy way.

Sina: Why do you think that is?

Baraa: I don't know. I've always had hardships. Even as a child, as a teenager, I never shared what was going on at home with anybody around me. I was dating my husband at the time when my parents separated. We had been dating for around a year. When my parents separated, I actually didn't tell him. I just chose to leave that out. Then we had a fight, it blew up, and we broke up because I was under so much pressure at home. I just couldn't handle anything else. I was like, "Peace out. This is not happening." We didn't date for six months. Then we came back to each other eventually, dated for another six years, then got married. But the idea is I never opened up about these things. I always showed that everything was cool, calm and collected. My mom always cared about things and the facade and everything being under control. And we don't talk about things in Middle Eastern culture. It's very hidden, hidden, hidden. So it's hard for me to just be like, "Oh, here's what's going on."

Sina: Okay, so this is what I want you to do. Instead of thinking, "Oh, here's what's going on," you can share, "Here's what went on, I'm over it, and this is what I learned."

Baraa: Yeah. That's always nicer. Because you also don't always want people's advice. Sometimes people think...

Sina: Listen, you know what I'm saying.

Baraa: Yeah. I don't want someone's advice. That's not what I'm here for. Thank you.

Sina: There is a lot of toxic authenticity going on right now where you just share everything that's going wrong with everything. And I think one of the times where it really bothered me was when I got pregnant and all I saw was negative. "Postpartum is going to be horrible." "Your birth is going to be horrible." "You're not going to get your body back." "That's just for people with good genetics." And you look at it and start believing it. Your entire day is dragged down. And you never want to give someone a negative feeling when they come to your feed. So it's really important that you shouldn't share just for the sake of sharing. Not, "Oh, this is the one authentic thing." Share what you've actually learned from it. Because this is the reason people buy. It's why they convert into followers or clients. They've heard your story. They've heard what problems you solved for yourself. And they want you to solve those problems because that's your track record. You don't even need clients to show that you have a track record. "I solved it for myself." That's the number one reason why I would buy. Because I know your story and your journey. And it doesn't mean you have to share any private details at any point. I kept my pregnancy private until my baby was three months old. Then I shared how that went for me. And I only shared it in a moment where I said, "Now I actually have value to give. I want to share this because I can see everyone else is struggling with this."

Baraa: It's hard to hide your pregnancy. Especially when you're posting every day.

Sina: Exactly. That's what I mean. Everything changes. Your face changes. Your energy. Your fatigue. The way you speak.

Baraa: I get stuck with these things, by the way.

Sina: Stuck with what?

Baraa: Let's say I'm pregnant and I'm shooting content and I look different. I can't not think about it. I'm uncomfortable with it.

Sina: Thinking about it makes you uncomfortable.

Baraa: Yeah. Especially when you have a lot of followers.

Sina: Number one, you can always repurpose content.

Baraa: Yeah, that's true.

Sina: Honestly, you can. You can also still be personal without sharing private details. People want to hear your story. They don't necessarily need to know what you eat for breakfast. And you can even share the mindset that you're uncomfortable creating content. I remember someone told me, "I don't want to create content because my kitchen is a mess and it's not aesthetic and beautiful. I want to rent a studio and make it super perfect." I was like, "Just share that." "I didn't want to share this because my kitchen is not aesthetic enough." People loved that angle.

Baraa: That's true. I find beauty in that as well, in the honesty. But it's having to look at yourself from another perspective. You have to watch yourself and see what your problem is and then say, "Okay, you know what? I can actually address this."

Sina: Yes. How has it been so far? We worked a little bit on your content. How was your mindset before versus now? Where are you right now?

Baraa: I would say there's a lot of positive change in the way that I share my content. I think it's mainly about storytelling and digging a little bit deeper. Since we've been working together, I've been really digging into my why, my passion, what comes behind all of this in order to connect more with my content and the way I'm sharing it, and to add value to people in a different way. I have been doing this for a very long time, so I think this is a pretty challenging case. I'm not starting from nothing and growing. I already sort of have it, and I'm changing the way, making small changes and seeing how that fits. And I think that's a nice way to go about it. Learning storytelling and doing these things a little bit differently rather than just sharing content to share content.

Sina: Definitely. One of the things we've worked on with you is the perfection and sharing what actually came behind it. Tell us about that 10K post and how you changed it.

Baraa: That was so funny, by the way. I was really proud of this post. I was like, "This is nice. People are going to love it." It's basically me running my 10K and at every kilometer recording what kilometer I was at. When I shared it with you, I hadn't shared the script or what I had in mind. So you're like, "It's just all positive. There's nothing that hooks us to see what's going on. Why is she doing 10K? Why do we need to care about this?" When I told my husband this, I thought it was really funny. He actually told me, "No, you need to add a little bit of a story. Why are you doing this 10K?" So I actually had to dig deep into why I really ran this 10K and what was behind all of it. And it triggered a lot of things when I actually dug deep. I'm someone who's usually very in tune with the things that I do, but because fitness is just a thing in my life, I didn't really think it was such a big deal that I was doing this 10K. But this also allowed me to dig deeper on a personal level. "What does this really mean to me?" It coincided with my one-year postpartum. And obviously, that was a big highlight for me to achieve. When I first delivered via C-section, I could not imagine the day that I would run because of the pain, the stitches, everything. I was like, "Goodbye. Never again."

Sina: That's another post idea.

Baraa: Exactly. When I had my C-section, I could not imagine that day. I was in so much pain. My body felt so different and so foreign to me at the time that I couldn't imagine going on the pavement and running. It wasn't a thing. I didn't even set a goal for myself to run at the time. Eventually, day by day, I just showed up for myself with no big goal. That's how I stumbled upon running the 10K. Found a program, bought it, did it, followed it. Easy peasy.

Sina: Exactly. So it went from, "Get ready with me to run my first 10K postpartum," to actually telling the story that it was quite difficult to get to that point.

Baraa: Yeah.

Sina: What happened afterwards? You got a message?

Baraa: I got a message from my sister, which is so funny because I had already run that 10K. I told her that I was running the 10K a few times. I told her when I finished it. She was like, "Yeah, great." Then I posted it. A few minutes later, I got ding, ding, ding, ding - like ten notifications. I'm looking at my sister and I'm like, "What's going on?" She's like, "Oh my God. I'm so proud of you. Really, this is such a huge milestone. I can't believe you did this. You're amazing." And I'm like, "You knew I did my 10K a while ago. What are you talking about?" She's like, "Your story just really made me feel proud of what you've achieved, and I wanted to celebrate you." I thought it was so funny that she said that even though she sees my everyday struggle. She was with me during my C-section. She was with me postpartum every single day for a few months. But we lose perspective on these things unless we tune in.

Sina: Storytelling.

Baraa: Yeah.

Sina: So powerful. Have you seen changes since we started? We started with Garden Mentoring around Ramadan, so maybe one and a half, almost two months ago. Can you see changes already on your account in terms of interaction and views?

Baraa: Yes. There are more views for sure on certain content. Instagram is a little bit of a tricky game. There are parts of it that are unfortunate because you can't just put whatever and hope it works. You have to think about the hook. You have to think about the solution and explanation. There are certain things that you've shared with me that have helped me structure the way I make my content. I think of it more like a mini production with a story, rather than just, "Whatever is going on, I'm just going to post that." And I think that's very valuable. Because it engages viewers from the beginning to the end, and they're a lot more in tune with it. So yes, the views and engagement are higher naturally because of these things.

Sina: One of the things I wanted to end the session with is that you're also working with brands. You're doing a lot of collaborations, which a lot of people want to do. So share a little bit. You don't have to disclose exact pricing, but I want women to see the potential they have when it comes to charging for their work and their expertise. Give us a little bit of a vision that people can maybe look forward to.

Baraa: You know, I hate when women play small. Shoot bigger is my thing. I love brands. And I believe brands have the money. I think you deserve that. You're going to put in the work. They clearly want to work with you because you have the audience, the creativity, the platform. You've worked on yourself as an expert. Own up to it as a woman. Own up to that and charge high. If they say no, there's another brand. And if they say yes, that's great. Charge higher next time.

Sina: I think that's really amazing. A lot of times, with brands, public speaking, clients - the higher you charge, the higher you'll be able to deliver as well. Instead of burning out, having all these small clients and small brands, trying to give discounts because you're desperate to get the thing. Either do it for free to get the testimonial or the brand on your roster, or charge high because you never know what they'll say yes to. I remember when I had my first paid speaking engagement. For two years, I had done speaking for free. Because first of all, you have to prove yourself to be good enough, right? You need to prove that you know what you're doing, that you feel comfortable, and that you actually like the thing that you want to offer. Then the next event that talked to me, I was like, "I don't actually need this. It's not a huge brand. So let me just ask for a crazy price." And they said, "We don't have a budget." I'm like, "Okay, let me just ask anyway." And they paid me four figures for my first speaking engagement, which was actually 30 minutes long. That's where I was like, "Okay, I just have to ask."

Baraa: Oh yeah. Take that step. I've done my fair share of free work with influencing as well. I loved that. I was so passionate about it at the time. "Give me anything. I'll do anything." Anything related to health and wellness at the time. Bars, this, that. I was really into it. And I did my fair share of free work. Then my audience grew. Their trust in me grew. My credibility grew as well. And as a dietitian, I felt like I had that power. I could negotiate and I could ask. There is just that factor of asking. There have been many times when someone told me they don't have a budget for something. I would either say no or give them the budget that I want. And they would find it. I think one time I said, "Oh, $5,000." And they said, "We only have $800." I'm like, "Okay, 20 minutes, $800. Fine." Twenty minutes of work.

Sina: That's the funny thing. So I want to know, as we're wrapping up, what's your plan for working with women? Because we all want your knowledge, and we all need that balance between nutrition, fitness, health and mindfulness. So what's your plan? What are we planning to do with the value you can give us?

Baraa: As I'm reworking a few things in my programs and the way I've been doing things, I've been helping women for a while, and I absolutely love it. I want to work with more women who want similar things in their lifestyles. Achieving things that make them feel good, happy, empowered. And I want to move a little bit farther away from the very obsessive type of work when it comes to fitness. Because that exists in the bodybuilding world and the "20 pounds in four weeks" kind of world. I don't want to be doing work like that. Rather, I want to work on things that can make you feel really good in your daily life. Something sustainable and lifestyle-based. I do have my app where I share my workouts, my nutrition, my meal plans. I have a dietitian who also helps onboard. And we do all of that work together, as well as meditation. So I have a whole system that helps women really come to the best version of themselves. And I'm working on a bunch of the details and the way to move forward.

Sina: I'm excited to see your brand grow more. I want to get you to that point where you charge high for clients as well. Too bad for your clients watching this.

Baraa: No, no, no.

Sina: Because if you put the money in, you'll see the results. You know the value of what you're getting, and you know the investment you're putting into yourself. We invest so much in our clothes, our travel. But what are we investing in our growth? I think one of the things that changed the way I look at fitness was when you told me there's a huge difference between people growing older and aging in a healthy way versus an unhealthy way. That really pushed me to say, "I'm investing." Even if I got my green juice package subscription. You telling me that made me understand. I invest so much in business and my brand. I put this money into my business because I can see the results. It's an investment, and I can see it come back ten times in a few months. I needed to do that for my health too. Because it's what keeps us going. It's where you live for the rest of your life. It's where you spend most of your time. You're with yourself forever.

Baraa: I do think it's a very crucial investment. I just feel like people struggle with that a little bit.

Sina: The thing is, you don't have to work with everyone. You can choose the clients you want and the clients who can afford you. They can still take all the free content from your social media. You give so much value for free through years of content, blog posts, podcasts. There's so much value for free. But if they want you one-on-one, if they want your time, you only have 24 hours.

Baraa: Yeah. And I actually haven't been doing one-on-one since COVID, since burnout.

Sina: There you go. And I think that is one of the biggest reasons why people burn out. Because we charge too low. We have affordable prices, so we get a high demand. And then it just doesn't go well together.

Baraa: Exactly.

Sina: Thank you so much for joining and telling us a little bit more about your journey. Thank you so much for inspiring other women to work on themselves, to work on their brand, and to charge high. I love that. If you have any questions about her expertise specifically, you can check out Baraa's Instagram. Everything is linked below. And of course, if you're ready to invest in yourself, go ahead and work with her because I've already learned so much from you as well. Thank you so much for joining.

Baraa: Likewise. Thank you so much for today, for your time, for your beautiful energy, and for everything we've been working on together. Thank you.

Sina: I'm excited to see you. Thank you so much for joining. And if you haven't yet, please subscribe. Assalamu alaikum.